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Thread: Tthe language of paragroup R

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    Lightbulb Tthe language of paragroup R

    Hello everybody!

    In my opinion = proto-Indo-European-Kartvelians-Dravidian language was the language of paragroup R.

    According to recent reports linguists, Indo-European languages together with Kartvelian languages and Dravidian languages ​​have a common proto-language - the Proto-Indo-European-Kartvelians-Dravidian. In my opinion, these data linguistics, indirectly confirmed by DNA genealogy data. Judge for yourself.

    R1a - Indo-Europeans,
    R1b - Proto-Basque and in my opinion also - Proto-Kartvelians. By the way, the part of the linguists thinks, that the Proto-Basque language was from Kartvelian. And now have ancient R1b into Kartvelians.
    R2 - Dravidians.
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    I wonder how many R1bs will have to be pulled out of Yamnaya kurgans dating from the 3rd millennium BC before these kinds of ruminations will cease and the connection between R1b and the early Indo-Europeans will be admitted.

    What will it take exactly?

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    Quote Originally Posted by rms2 View Post
    I wonder how many R1bs will have to be pulled out of Yamnaya kurgans dating from the 3rd millennium BC before these kinds of ruminations will cease and the connection between R1b and the early Indo-Europeans will be admitted.

    What will it take exactly?
    Time machine.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rms2 View Post
    I wonder how many R1bs will have to be pulled out of Yamnaya kurgans dating from the 3rd millennium BC before these kinds of ruminations will cease and the connection between R1b and the early Indo-Europeans will be admitted.

    What will it take exactly?
    I'm not agreeing with OP, but I want to point out that the Yamna haven't been definitively linked to IE yet.

    The spread of IE languages can be explained by Corded Ware migrations. The Yamna-like component in Corded Ware DNA could come from Sredny Stog which would've been genetically similar to Yamna.

    The Yamna and Maykop may have spoken a language ancestral to Northwest and/or Northeast Caucasian. Yamna derived Bell Beakers then spread this language to western Europe. This would neatly explain the connections between the Basque language and Caucasian languages, the abundance of R1b and steppe admixture in the Basque, and the presence of a Vasconic substratum across western Europe. This could also be the source of Iberian languages.

    Italic and Celtic languages are linked with Urnfield and Hallstatt migrations. The Urnfield are descended from a mix of Bell Beaker and Corded Ware in Central Europe. As it happened, a Corded Ware language (Northwest IE) was imposed on a mostly R1b (U152) population which then spread with the Urnfield culture.

    This is one possible scenario I can see occurring with current evidence, but I agree that it is also possible that the Yamna and Bell Beakers were IE.

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    Quote Originally Posted by storm View Post
    I'm not agreeing with OP, but I want to point out that the Yamna haven't been definitively linked to IE yet.

    The spread of IE languages can be explained by Corded Ware migrations . . .
    Well, on the other hand, Corded Ware has not been definitively linked to IE either.

    You probably understand that it is impossible to "definitively" link any ancient people to IE prior to the invention of writing. Without documentary evidence, we do not know what language any ancient people spoke, not "definitively" anyway.

    A number of highly respected scholars connect Yamnaya to IE, and many of the same scholars assert that Corded Ware is also linked to IE. That is my view, as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MitchellSince1893 View Post
    Time machine.
    LOL Beat me to it
    It truly would solve all issues, though.

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    Hi All,
    I agree that the earliest Haplogroup R men spoke Proto-Indo-European. And furthermore, that they arose together in the Stans region. particularly in Tajikistan and/or adjacent areas of Krygyzstan and Uzbekistan.
    Early members of Haplogroup R and their language spread north into Siberia (where MA1, the Mal'ta child, lived) and later and more importantly west across Kazakhstan and beyond (as Haplogroup R1) and south into Pakistan and India (as Haplogroup R2).

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    Quote Originally Posted by storm View Post
    I'm not agreeing with OP, but I want to point out that the Yamna haven't been definitively linked to IE yet.

    The spread of IE languages can be explained by Corded Ware migrations. The Yamna-like component in Corded Ware DNA could come from Sredny Stog which would've been genetically similar to Yamna.

    The Yamna and Maykop may have spoken a language ancestral to Northwest and/or Northeast Caucasian. Yamna derived Bell Beakers then spread this language to western Europe. This would neatly explain the connections between the Basque language and Caucasian languages, the abundance of R1b and steppe admixture in the Basque, and the presence of a Vasconic substratum across western Europe. This could also be the source of Iberian languages.

    Italic and Celtic languages are linked with Urnfield and Hallstatt migrations. The Urnfield are descended from a mix of Bell Beaker and Corded Ware in Central Europe. As it happened, a Corded Ware language (Northwest IE) was imposed on a mostly R1b (U152) population which then spread with the Urnfield culture.

    This is one possible scenario I can see occurring with current evidence, but I agree that it is also possible that the Yamna and Bell Beakers were IE.
    Kura-Araxes may not have spoken Proto-Kartvelian. OP seems to think that because an R1b turned up in a kurgan related culture in the Caucasus that they must have spoken Proto-Kartvelian - based on what exactly? Why is he sure of this, but not sure of cultures like Yamnaya speaking IE?

    Also, absolutely no evidence Corded Ware culture imposed itself on a R-U152 dominant culture of central Europe. What evidence supports this? If CW imposed itself on LBK, which is seems to have, it would have been G2 and H2 males. (forgive me for not recalling the exact subclades here)
    Last edited by ADW_1981; 03-02-2017 at 03:58 AM.
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    maternal-ggf YDNA R1b-U106 Thomas, Edward b 1854, Sittingbourne, Kent
    paternal-ggf YDNA: R1b-Z17901. Gould, John Somerset England 1800s.
    paternal-ggf YDNA: R1b-L48. Scott, William Hamilton Ireland(?) 1800s

    other:
    Welch: early 1800s E-M84 Kent, England.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bulat View Post
    Hello everybody!

    In my opinion = proto-Indo-European-Kartvelians-Dravidian language was the language of paragroup R.

    According to recent reports linguists, Indo-European languages together with Kartvelian languages and Dravidian languages ​​have a common proto-language - the Proto-Indo-European-Kartvelians-Dravidian. In my opinion, these data linguistics, indirectly confirmed by DNA genealogy data. Judge for yourself.

    R1a - Indo-Europeans,
    R1b - Proto-Basque and in my opinion also - Proto-Kartvelians. By the way, the part of the linguists thinks, that the Proto-Basque language was from Kartvelian. And now have ancient R1b into Kartvelians.
    R2 - Dravidians.
    so what language did the haplogroups in the same area as per the above R1a and R1b speak at the time of creation of PIE ?


    My Path = ( K-M9+, TL-P326+, T-M184+, L490+, M70+, PF5664+, L131+, L446+, CTS933+, CTS3767+, CTS8862+, Z19945+, BY143483 )


    Grandfather via paternal grandmother = I1-L22 ydna
    Great grandmother paternal side = T1a1e mtdna

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    Hi All,
    I use to like to use the term Proto-Indo-European language or perhaps Proto-Nostratic. However, a more general term like Proto-Prenostratic might be preferable for what was spoken by the earliest men of Haplogroup R.
    ------------Ken
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    Quote Originally Posted by vettor View Post
    so what language did the haplogroups in the same area as per the above R1a and R1b speak at the time of creation of PIE ?
    Last edited by kinman; 03-02-2017 at 11:34 PM.

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