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Thread: Breton/French Result.

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by timberwolf View Post
    Mine as a comparison



    The first thing I noticed is, I get a higher French score, then someone, who is actually French.

    the name assigned for this component is probably not correct.
    From my side, as Norman I get 8.69 % of it.
    Recent Ancestry, full Normand. Known Genealogy 7/8 of the Cotentin peninsula 1/8 region of Coutances. Unfortunately, there are many missing branches on the maternal side.

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  3. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by sktibo View Post
    Definitely would have thought there would be a higher percentage from Cornwall and Devon for both Tolan and this Half Breton... A stronger Welsh connection too.
    This ties in to LucaszM's K47 result for Helgene's Cousin who is half Breton - and got a higher percentage in "North Sea Germanic" than "Celtic". North Sea Germanic in this K47 contains SE English samples, so I think we're seeing a match with that again as we do here. These results may hint at Bretons not being what we originally perceived them to be? Who knows.. hopefully France will open up more to the commercial DNA testing world.
    My history knowledge on this is very limited so I'm happy to be corrected.
    I have read that parts of Brittany (the South I think) have fairly significant Frank history/influence and in the East you have proximity to and associations with, Normandy and I guess that includes Franks as well as Scandinavians? Maybe it's like the border and coastal areas of Wales where we have seen "other influences". Possibly if we were able to look at Brittany in greater regional detail we might actually see that there are certain areas (possibly the North West? ) that lie closer to Ireland and South Western Britain genetically as well as geographically. This might not be too far fetched if you look at the apparent genetic and cultural differences either side on the Landsker line in Pembrokeshire, the fairly distinct differences along and close to the Welsh border and the fact that a river seems to separate Cornwall in more ways than one from it's Devon neighbours.
    It is noticeable however in all these results I think, the apparent associations with the far South of England and the Western coast of Britain (up the Irish Sea) and Ireland.
    I will ask about K36 but I don't know if he is on Gedmatch.
    Last edited by JohnHowellsTyrfro; 01-09-2018 at 07:44 AM. Reason: afterthought

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  5. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnHowellsTyrfro View Post
    My history knowledge on this is very limited so I'm happy to be corrected.
    I have read that parts of Brittany (the South I think) have fairly significant Frank history/influence and in the East you have proximity to and associations with, Normandy and I guess that includes Franks as well as Scandinavians? Maybe it's like the border and coastal areas of Wales where we have seen "other influences". Possibly if we were able to look at Brittany in greater regional detail we might actually see that there are certain areas (possibly the North West? ) that lie closer to Ireland and South Western Britain genetically as well as geographically. This might not be too far fetched if you look at the apparent genetic and cultural differences either side on the Landsker line in Pembrokeshire, the fairly distinct differences along and close to the Welsh border and the fact that a river seems to separate Cornwall in more ways than one from it's Devon neighbours.
    It is noticeable however in all these results I think, the apparent associations with the far South of England and the Western coast of Britain (up the Irish Sea) and Ireland.
    I will ask about K36 but I don't know if he is on Gedmatch.
    Not South, East.
    What is today Eastern Brittany , was for the Franks a Mark a borderland, ruled by a "Marquis", one of them is very well known, Roland of the song.
    Franks as letes, were also present in Rennes.
    From what we know the paternal lines in Brittany are more homogeneous Than in Western Normandy, with a lot of I-M253. Their Nordic or Germanic ancestry is probably hidden in their aDNA, but not really visible in the Y chromosome
    Most of their clades are Celtic.
    Recent Ancestry, full Normand. Known Genealogy 7/8 of the Cotentin peninsula 1/8 region of Coutances. Unfortunately, there are many missing branches on the maternal side.

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  7. #14
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    France France Bretagne
    In all calculators, I am not much "North Sea" for a northern French.
    My K36 results:

    Amerindian -
    Arabian -
    Armenian -
    Basque 1.09%
    Central_African -
    Central_Euro 7.30%
    East_African -
    East_Asian -
    East_Balkan 5.13%
    East_Central_Asian -
    East_Central_Euro 5.52%
    East_Med -
    Eastern_Euro 4.25%
    Fennoscandian 3.70%
    French 7.58%
    Iberian 18.29%
    Indo-Chinese -
    Italian 13.35%
    Malayan -
    Near_Eastern -
    North_African 1.08%
    North_Atlantic 16.54%
    North_Caucasian 2.63%
    North_Sea 10.76%
    Northeast_African -
    Oceanian -
    Omotic -
    Pygmy -
    Siberian -
    South_Asian -
    South_Central_Asian -
    South_Chinese -
    Volga-Ural -
    West_African -
    West_Caucasian -
    West_Med 2.76%
    Y haplogroup: R1b: L21 --> DF13 --> BY145002
    The oldest L21 known are I2457 et I2565 from Stonehenge (Beaker Culture, 2400-1900 BC)

    MTDNA: U4c1
    The oldest U4c1 known are "poz224", Yamnaya culture (2882-2698 BC), and 2 Bell-Beaker in Germany (Karsdorf, 2314-2042 BC)

    Paternal MTDNA: K1b2b
    The oldest K1b2 are Eastern European Mesolithic: Kunda Donkalnis5 (Lithuania), 6000 BC and Meso-Ene Lepenski Vir Lepe28 in Serbia, 5900 BC.
    The oldest K1b2b is Alt-3, Corded-Ware Germany (2500 BC)

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  9. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnHowellsTyrfro View Post
    With his permission, below are the results of a chap who is French born and says his maternal known ancestry is entirely Breton, he says "from the 1500's" and on the paternal side French although the name of a great great grandfather ( living around 1861) is unknown. He is particularly baffled by his South and South East England percentages.
    That is interesting and I would tend to echo your thoughts on this. Northern France and Southern England are probably genetically close, as these Living DNA results appear to show. The English Channel is not that wide and there has probably been to and fro across the channel for millennia. Barry Cunliffe in Britain Begins talks about very close contact across the channel during the Iron Age which he calls the Channel -North Sea cultural zone.

    Regarding the Bretons, I think you and others hit the nail on the head here. Eastern Brittany likely has more historical influence from other areas, eg Franks, so what we really need to see is the results of someone from Western Brittany, preferably a Breton speaker who has long standing 100% ancestry in the same area. This in itself might be difficult to find though, because modern populations everywhere in NW Europe are generally quite mixed.

    I suspect that if the 'right' Breton takes a Living DNA test then we may see a close affinity with Cornwall and/or Wales. However, the Breton migration was 1700 years ago so genetic drift may have pulled modern Bretons away from modern Cornish/Welsh, to a certain extent.

    channel zone.jpg

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  11. #16
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    Thanks Avalon, your opinion is valued, as always.
    Personally I think we should test every farmer we can find. They tend to be tied to the land for many generations. A generalisation but some truth in it maybe.

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  13. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnHowellsTyrfro View Post
    Thanks Avalon, your opinion is valued, as always.
    Personally I think we should test every farmer we can find. They tend to be tied to the land for many generations. A generalisation but some truth in it maybe.
    Yes, I think farmers would be good people to test. In my experience though, they might be the last people to ever do a DNA test, busy lives, outdoors a lot, and neither the time nor interest in DNA testing!

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  15. #18
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    Algeria France Bretagne France
    My father is breton (northeast Brittany). Here's his K36 :
    Amerindian -
    Arabian -
    Armenian -
    Basque 4.29
    Central_African -
    Central_Euro 6.48
    East_African -
    East_Asian -
    East_Balkan 1.65
    East_Central_Asian -
    East_Central_Euro 6.38
    East_Med -
    Eastern_Euro 2.92
    Fennoscandian 4.79
    French 6.91

    Iberian 19.39
    Indo-Chinese -
    Italian 10.81
    Malayan -
    Near_Eastern -
    North_African -
    North_Atlantic 17.81
    North_Caucasian 3.02
    North_Sea 12.05
    Northeast_African -
    Oceanian -
    Omotic -
    Pygmy -
    Siberian -
    South_Asian -
    South_Central_Asian -
    South_Chinese -
    Volga-Ural 0.67
    West_African -
    West_Caucasian -
    West_Med 2.84

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  17. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by avalon View Post
    That is interesting and I would tend to echo your thoughts on this. Northern France and Southern England are probably genetically close, as these Living DNA results appear to show. The English Channel is not that wide and there has probably been to and fro across the channel for millennia. Barry Cunliffe in Britain Begins talks about very close contact across the channel during the Iron Age which he calls the Channel -North Sea cultural zone.

    Regarding the Bretons, I think you and others hit the nail on the head here. Eastern Brittany likely has more historical influence from other areas, eg Franks, so what we really need to see is the results of someone from Western Brittany, preferably a Breton speaker who has long standing 100% ancestry in the same area. This in itself might be difficult to find though, because modern populations everywhere in NW Europe are generally quite mixed.

    I suspect that if the 'right' Breton takes a Living DNA test then we may see a close affinity with Cornwall and/or Wales. However, the Breton migration was 1700 years ago so genetic drift may have pulled modern Bretons away from modern Cornish/Welsh, to a certain extent.

    channel zone.jpg
    If I remember correctly, Helgene's cousin's Breton side is from the Northern coast of Brittany, which should be the right sort of area. However, it is only half of their ancestry - And they haven't taken Living DNA as far as I know
    Last edited by sktibo; 01-14-2018 at 10:00 PM.

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  19. #20
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    France France Bretagne
    On this calculator, your father is very close to me: 90% similarity.

    Here is the K36 map for your father:
    Attachment 20783


    Quote Originally Posted by Rinema View Post
    My father is breton (northeast Brittany). Here's his K36 :
    Amerindian -
    Arabian -
    Armenian -
    Basque 4.29
    Central_African -
    Central_Euro 6.48
    East_African -
    East_Asian -
    East_Balkan 1.65
    East_Central_Asian -
    East_Central_Euro 6.38
    East_Med -
    Eastern_Euro 2.92
    Fennoscandian 4.79
    French 6.91

    Iberian 19.39
    Indo-Chinese -
    Italian 10.81
    Malayan -
    Near_Eastern -
    North_African -
    North_Atlantic 17.81
    North_Caucasian 3.02
    North_Sea 12.05
    Northeast_African -
    Oceanian -
    Omotic -
    Pygmy -
    Siberian -
    South_Asian -
    South_Central_Asian -
    South_Chinese -
    Volga-Ural 0.67
    West_African -
    West_Caucasian -
    West_Med 2.84
    Y haplogroup: R1b: L21 --> DF13 --> BY145002
    The oldest L21 known are I2457 et I2565 from Stonehenge (Beaker Culture, 2400-1900 BC)

    MTDNA: U4c1
    The oldest U4c1 known are "poz224", Yamnaya culture (2882-2698 BC), and 2 Bell-Beaker in Germany (Karsdorf, 2314-2042 BC)

    Paternal MTDNA: K1b2b
    The oldest K1b2 are Eastern European Mesolithic: Kunda Donkalnis5 (Lithuania), 6000 BC and Meso-Ene Lepenski Vir Lepe28 in Serbia, 5900 BC.
    The oldest K1b2b is Alt-3, Corded-Ware Germany (2500 BC)

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