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Thread: Breton/French Result.

  1. #21
    Registered Users
    Posts
    168
    Sex
    Location
    Brittany, France
    Ethnicity
    Celtic & Berber
    Y-DNA (P)
    I-Y38675 (I2a2)
    mtDNA (M)
    T1a2f
    Y-DNA (M)
    G-BY37102 (G2a2)
    mtDNA (P)
    H1b1-a

    Algeria France Bretagne France
    @Tolan
    Yes I know this tool ^^ What is yours ?

  2. #22
    Registered Users
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    1,636
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    Location
    France
    Ethnicity
    Breton & Maineau
    Nationality
    French
    Y-DNA (P)
    R-BY145002 (DF13+)
    mtDNA (M)
    U4c1a

    France France Bretagne
    Quote Originally Posted by Rinema View Post
    @Tolan
    Yes I know this tool ^^ What is yours ?
    Attachment 20816
    Y haplogroup: R1b: L21 --> DF13 --> BY145002
    The oldest L21 known are I2457 et I2565 from Stonehenge (Beaker Culture, 2400-1900 BC)

    MTDNA: U4c1
    The oldest U4c1 known are "poz224", Yamnaya culture (2882-2698 BC), and 2 Bell-Beaker in Germany (Karsdorf, 2314-2042 BC)

    Paternal MTDNA: K1b2b
    The oldest K1b2 are Eastern European Mesolithic: Kunda Donkalnis5 (Lithuania), 6000 BC and Meso-Ene Lepenski Vir Lepe28 in Serbia, 5900 BC.
    The oldest K1b2b is Alt-3, Corded-Ware Germany (2500 BC)

  3. #23
    Registered Users
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    672
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    Location
    Texas
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    English, Irish, German
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    US
    Y-DNA (P)
    L21>L226>FGC5639

    England Germany Netherlands France Ireland Switzerland
    We have had a very interesting discovery for R-L226 which is very Irish in origin. We recently turned one of the L226 branch equivalents (around 25 of these) into the father of L226. One person took our L226 SNP Pack and came back FGC5618 positive (formerly a L226 equivalent) but L226 negative. As it turns out, this person has only ties in northern and northwestern France to our mutual surprise. Here is an excerpt of his atDNA research:

    I have always been told that my grandfather’s family came from France. When I first learned of my being part of the R1b haplogroup, I was able to confirm this history. My unbroken family tree stops with names that go back to the late 1800s. However, after doing an autosomal dna test through Ancestry.com, I was able to get the names of two Loiseau relatives of mine from the 1600s...and they both were from northwestern France. I accomplished this by looking at the family trees of two of my dna matches.

    They say luck does play a part in genealogical research, and I finally lucked out. The two dna matched cousins of mine through Ancestry happened to have very thorough family trees without gaps...and the Loiseau surname was the only one the three of us shared through direct lineage. I know the surnames of all eight of my great grandparents. Each of these two cousin matches also had the Loiseau’s from northern France on their respective family trees. And I have a few leads for some other Loiseau’s from other parts of France.

    Being from a Haitian background has certain limitations when it comes to family research. Outside of the lack of records that can be accessed digitally online, Haitian culture is a very private one. For example, I have fourth generation cousins who say they have a family tree that goes back to the 1600s, which reflects Loiseau’s from both France and Belgium, but I haven’t gained enough of their trust for them to share this tree with me. However, I’m confident in time they will give up the goods. But until then, I plan to continue to use triangulation through Ancestry trees and the family knowledge from my elders with whom I am closest to continue to connect the dots of my paper and pencil genealogical records.

    Here is an interesting video on Celtic languages which covers the Celtic migration which was not a massive replacement of genetics but a certain of genetic flow did occur. It goes into pretty good detail in the first half of the video on how Celtic languages spread and then were replaced. The second half is purely differences in the Celtic languages that still exist today:

    https://youtu.be/ri1Vw3w1_10


    The YSTRs of this tester has very little in common with the extremely predictable YSTR signature of L226, so this connection is believed to at least 500 to 1,000 years older than the bulk of L226 which became very prolific in numbers around 1,500 years ago. We speculate that L226 originated from northwestern France either from the surviving Celtic community where Saxons did not conquer or from those fleeing England from Saxon invasion who fled to northwestern France to escape the Saxon invasion of England. Of course, this person has no close matches at all from a YDNA point of view but from a YSNP point of view is a very interesting twist for L226 which has origins in County Clare, Ireland.

    YFULL states that L226 is around 1,500 years old but we have around 35 L226 branch equivalents (around ten are in complex areas and another five are Full Genomes only tested). Due to the extensive numbers of L226 branch equivalents, we know the actual L226 mutation happened 1,500 or 3,000 years prior to L226 becoming prolific around 1,500 years ago. Can't hardly wait our French connection (who is African American from Haiti) receives his Big Y results to see just how many L226 equivalents get pulled up to FGC5618 equivalents.

    If anyone has a better idea of how a very Irish haplogroup ended up with its genetic father in France, I am open to understanding other possible scenarios explaining the unusual development. At 67 markers, this tester only matches 4 of 9 of the L226 signature mutations. He also only matches 3 of 7 of the mutations for markers 68 to 111. Plus he has a huge genetic distance from the L226 signature with genetic distance of fifteen at 67 markers and an additional genetic distance of twelve added for markers 68 to 111.


    Last edited by RobertCasey; 01-16-2018 at 01:32 PM.

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  5. #24
    Registered Users
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    1,919
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    South East Wales UK
    Ethnicity
    Welsh
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    British
    Y-DNA (P)
    U106 Z326 R-BY27310
    mtDNA (M)
    J1c1b2a

    United Kingdom Wales
    Quote Originally Posted by RobertCasey View Post
    We have had a very interesting discovery for R-L226 which is very Irish in origin. We recently turned one of the L226 branch equivalents (around 25 of these) into the father of L226. One person took our L226 SNP Pack and came back FGC5618 positive (formerly a L226 equivalent) but L226 negative. As it turns out, this person has only ties in northern and northwestern France to our mutual surprise. Here is an excerpt of his atDNA research:

    I have always been told that my grandfather’s family came from France. When I first learned of my being part of the R1b haplogroup, I was able to confirm this history. My unbroken family tree stops with names that go back to the late 1800s. However, after doing an autosomal dna test through Ancestry.com, I was able to get the names of two Loiseau relatives of mine from the 1600s...and they both were from northwestern France. I accomplished this by looking at the family trees of two of my dna matches.

    They say luck does play a part in genealogical research, and I finally lucked out. The two dna matched cousins of mine through Ancestry happened to have very thorough family trees without gaps...and the Loiseau surname was the only one the three of us shared through direct lineage. I know the surnames of all eight of my great grandparents. Each of these two cousin matches also had the Loiseau’s from northern France on their respective family trees. And I have a few leads for some other Loiseau’s from other parts of France.

    Being from a Haitian background has certain limitations when it comes to family research. Outside of the lack of records that can be accessed digitally online, Haitian culture is a very private one. For example, I have fourth generation cousins who say they have a family tree that goes back to the 1600s, which reflects Loiseau’s from both France and Belgium, but I haven’t gained enough of their trust for them to share this tree with me. However, I’m confident in time they will give up the goods. But until then, I plan to continue to use triangulation through Ancestry trees and the family knowledge from my elders with whom I am closest to continue to connect the dots of my paper and pencil genealogical records.

    Here is an interesting video on Celtic languages which covers the Celtic migration which was not a massive replacement of genetics but a certain of genetic flow did occur. It goes into pretty good detail in the first half of the video on how Celtic languages spread and then were replaced. The second half is purely differences in the Celtic languages that still exist today:

    https://youtu.be/ri1Vw3w1_10


    The YSTRs of this tester has very little in common with the extremely predictable YSTR signature of L226, so this connection is believed to at least 500 to 1,000 years older than the bulk of L226 which became very prolific in numbers around 1,500 years ago. We speculate that L226 originated from northwestern France either from the surviving Celtic community where Saxons did not conquer or from those fleeing England from Saxon invasion who fled to northwestern France to escape the Saxon invasion of England. Of course, this person has no close matches at all from a YDNA point of view but from a YSNP point of view is a very interesting twist for L226 which has origins in County Clare, Ireland.

    YFULL states that L226 is around 1,500 years old but we have around 35 L226 branch equivalents (around ten are in complex areas and another five are Full Genomes only tested). Due to the extensive numbers of L226 branch equivalents, we know the actual L226 mutation happened 1,500 or 3,000 years prior to L226 becoming prolific around 1,500 years ago. Can't hardly wait our French connection (who is African American from Haiti) receives his Big Y results to see just how many L226 equivalents get pulled up to FGC5618 equivalents.

    If anyone has a better idea of how a very Irish haplogroup ended up with its genetic father in France, I am open to understanding other possible scenarios explaining the unusual development. At 67 markers, this tester only matches 4 of 9 of the L226 signature mutations. He also only matches 3 of 7 of the mutations for markers 68 to 111. Plus he has a huge genetic distance from the L226 signature with genetic distance of fifteen at 67 markers and an additional genetic distance of twelve added for markers 68 to 111.


    I'm not suggesting this is a "better" option. We know of course there is a very early connection between Ireland, Wales (South in particular) and South West England (mainly Cornwall I think) from Ogham stones and the historic record.
    Worth remembering also I think there was a long "English" presence in parts of France during the 100 years war ( 1337 - 1453 ). This presence would have certainly included men of Welsh and possibly English West country origin, whether of Irish origin I don't know.
    I was curious about one of my 12 marker matches a French chap with the surname L'Angloise which I believe roughly translates as "The Englishman". This could suggest his ancestry goes back to this period although it's possible I suppose that his earlier ancestors could possibly have travelled to England around the Norman Conquest and then returned to France at a later date or migrated to France for another reason.
    Some very early connection seems most likely for the L226 but with an individual, who knows where their ancestors' journeys might have taken them? Anything known about the distribution of L226 in Britain particularly Wales and the West Country?
    Last edited by JohnHowellsTyrfro; 01-17-2018 at 08:44 AM. Reason: afterthought

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  7. #25
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    Texas
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    L21>L226>FGC5639

    England Germany Netherlands France Ireland Switzerland
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnHowellsTyrfro View Post
    Some very early connection seems most likely for the L226 but with an individual, who knows where their ancestors' journeys might have taken them? Anything known about the distribution of L226 in Britain particularly Wales and the West Country?
    Yes - I definitely agree with this last statement that with only one individual the flow could have been backwards back to France vs. France to Ireland. But we do know that this French tester is an ancestor via YDNA testing. FGC5618 is proven to be the father of L226 and he shares only around half of the L226 signature, so this connection is quite old based on YSTRs. Once his Big Y results are known, we will see just how many L226 equivalents become FGC5618 equivalents. This will make the date range of L226 much much smaller as L226 will lose most of its branch equivalents based on the fact that the L226 SNP revealed that many have already moved up the haplotree being confirmed as positive. Unfortunately, we just removed most of the L226 equivalents in the last round of updates to make room for new L226 branches and 20 or 30 Big Y tests that have new private YSNPs. Also, Z253 the ancestor of L226 has primarily English, Scottish and Welsh origins (and a lot more Irish as well). But it also has French and German and even a few in Spain, Lithuania, Russia and Switzerland.

    Unfortunately, this tester has no close YSTR matches at 67 or 111 markers. Even beyond the FTDNA matching system, his matches are very distant. So building his genetic cluster will not be easy.

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  9. #26
    Registered Users
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    1,919
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    South East Wales UK
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    Welsh
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    U106 Z326 R-BY27310
    mtDNA (M)
    J1c1b2a

    United Kingdom Wales
    Quote Originally Posted by RobertCasey View Post
    Yes - I definitely agree with this last statement that with only one individual the flow could have been backwards back to France vs. France to Ireland. But we do know that this French tester is an ancestor via YDNA testing. FGC5618 is proven to be the father of L226 and he shares only around half of the L226 signature, so this connection is quite old based on YSTRs. Once his Big Y results are known, we will see just how many L226 equivalents become FGC5618 equivalents. This will make the date range of L226 much much smaller as L226 will lose most of its branch equivalents based on the fact that the L226 SNP revealed that many have already moved up the haplotree being confirmed as positive. Unfortunately, we just removed most of the L226 equivalents in the last round of updates to make room for new L226 branches and 20 or 30 Big Y tests that have new private YSNPs. Also, Z253 the ancestor of L226 has primarily English, Scottish and Welsh origins (and a lot more Irish as well). But it also has French and German and even a few in Spain, Lithuania, Russia and Switzerland.

    Unfortunately, this tester has no close YSTR matches at 67 or 111 markers. Even beyond the FTDNA matching system, his matches are very distant. So building his genetic cluster will not be easy.
    The lack of results from France is a shame, the answers to quite a few questions may lie there possibly. Good luck with finding out more.

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  11. #27
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    56
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    Michigan
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    Celto-Germanic
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    American
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    I-Z2336
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    X2

    Switzerland Germany Palatinate Canada Quebec France Bretagne Belgium Ireland
    Very interesting , however i think livingDNA exaggerates British Isles dna at the moment , in the future it will probably be broken down into way more French DNA rather than so much British . Dont get me wrong though since hes breton he will still have alot of British Isles dna !

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     JohnHowellsTyrfro (02-05-2018)

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