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Thread: Are the Scythians/Sarmatians Iranic?

  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArnoldNeck View Post
    I don't think that's true, actually. I read a study on Scythians genetics from last April, and it indicated that there was a clear West vs East divide among Scythians.

    Western Scythians appear to be the ancestors of modern day groups in the Caucasus, Central Asians (Tajiks, Pashtuns), and Eastern Slavs. On the other hand, Eastern Slavs appear to be ancestral to modern Turkic speaking people.



    There was a chart in the supplemental information pdf of thst study showing that Eastern Slavs, Central Asians, and Caucasians largely derive ancestry from Western Scythians (figure 11, I think).

    I would post the link to the study, but this website isn't letting me share links. I could share it by pm, perhaps. The study is from Nature Communications and is titled "Ancestry and demography and descendants of Iron Age nomads of the Eurasian Steppe," so you can find it via google, if you'd like.
    What about Eastern Scythians?

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    Quote Originally Posted by bmoney View Post
    What about Eastern Scythians?
    Eastern Scythians seem to have been ancestral to modern day Turkic speaking groups.

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  4. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArnoldNeck View Post
    I don't think that's true, actually. I read a study on Scythians genetics from last April, and it indicated that there was a clear West vs East divide among Scythians.

    Western Scythians appear to be the ancestors of modern day groups in the Caucasus, Central Asians (Tajiks, Pashtuns), and Eastern Slavs. On the other hand, Eastern Scythians appear to be ancestral to modern Turkic speaking people.



    There was a chart in the supplemental information pdf of thst study showing that Eastern Slavs, Central Asians, and Caucasians largely derive ancestry from Western Scythians (figure 11, I think).

    I would post the link to the study, but this website isn't letting me share links. I could share it by pm, perhaps. The study is from Nature Communications and is titled "Ancestry and demography and descendants of Iron Age nomads of the Eurasian Steppe," so you can find it via google, if you'd like.
    You don't understand, what is written there. So please read it again. They claimed that these people are genetically similar to Western Scythian, but nowhere they wrote that modern people in these regions are mainly derived from Scythians. Actually i even would not say that modern Slavs are genetically very similar to Western Scythian. You should look closer to their autosomal dna and than you would see that Western Scythian are much less EEF-shifted than modern day Slavs and have significant Siberian-admixture, which Slavs lack except of some Russians , which recently mixed with natives in Siberia or the Ural region. Modern day Tatars, Udmurts and Volga Uralics are most similar to Western Scythians genetically but they are still not identically to them. Only Tatars have direct Scythian ancestry and they carry many of their uniparental markers but Tatars are heavily mixed and also not pure descendants of Scythians. Western Scythians did not move into Central Asia and are not ancestors of any Pashtuns or Tajiks. You are talking about Central Asian Saka, which were genetically distinct from both Western and Eastern Scythians.
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  6. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silesian View Post
    Yamnaya R1b marker -I0231 age and relative position to R1b-marker found in Pathans.




    Rathlin R1b marker- Western Europe in relation to I0231 R1b marker sample


    Last edited by Silesian; Today at 03:20 PM.

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  8. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coldmountains View Post
    You don't understand, what is written there. So please read it again. They claimed that these people are genetically similar to Western Scythian, but nowhere they wrote that modern people in these regions are mainly derived from Scythians. Actually i even would not say that modern Slavs are genetically very similar to Western Scythian. You should look closer to their autosomal dna and than you would see that Western Scythian are much less EEF-shifted than modern day Slavs and have significant Siberian-admixture, which Slavs lack except of some Russians , which recently mixed with natives in Siberia or the Ural region. Modern day Tatars, Udmurts and Volga Uralics are most similar to Western Scythians genetically but they are still not identically to them. Only Tatars have direct Scythian ancestry and they carry many of their uniparental markers but Tatars are heavily mixed and also not pure descendants of Scythians. Western Scythians did not move into Central Asia and are not ancestors of any Pashtuns or Tajiks. You are talking about Central Asian Saka, which were genetically distinct from both Western and Eastern Scythians.
    You should look at the supplemental figures (figure 11) in the study. They had a chart showing who had genetic relatedness and descent from both Scythian populations, and Russians as well as Caucasians, Central Asian Iranics, and Eastern Persians did have significant ancestry from Western Scythians

  9. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArnoldNeck View Post
    You should look at the supplemental figures (figure 11) in the study. They had a chart showing who had genetic relatedness and descent from both Scythian populations, and Russians as well as Caucasians, Central Asian Iranics, and Eastern Persians did have significant ancestry from Western Scythians
    The chart is based on mtDNA, and the problem with mtDNA is that unless there are full mitogenomes available for analysis, then it sort of looks all the same for many West Eurasian populations.

    And even with mitogenomes it's hard to estimate genome-wide admixture, because mitogenomes obviously only represent maternal ancestry.

    If you want to understand Scythian input into modern populations, then you need to first look at Scythian genome-wide genetic structure, not mtDNA, and go from there.

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