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Thread: Y Haplogroup L is caucasus

  1. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by sultan View Post
    ... new LT-L298 mutation, become an important component in understanding the correlation between genetic and linguistic diversity. The distribution pattern of LT-L298 is strikingly similar to J-M304...
    LT is about 50000 years old and J is about 45000 years old.
    These are pre-LGM lines close in age to the first appearance of AMH in western Asia.

    J appears in Satsurblia (Late Upper Palaeolithic 13,300 years old). And it is noted: "17,000-18,000 cal. BP and as such are the first well-dated evidence for human occupation in the southern Caucasus at the end of the LGM."

    So it appears that they were 'wintering' in the LGM somewhere else and the spread of these lines happens post LGM.

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  3. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by pegasus View Post
    Black Sea? For that to occur you would have considerable Villabruna like ancestry in Neolithic Iranians. Ultimately LT originates with some Basal Eurasian like population and we know Basal Eurasians come deep within Western Asia, where the most Basal populations live.

    Btw L2 was found in Tepe Hisar, Iran, I believe its the earliest evidence of it.
    The oldest T1 found is in modern Bulgaria on the black sea......the T2-Ph110 has only been discovered in 2015 and its stated as:
    T2 (T-PH110), the most basal primary branch of T-M184, has been found in three very separate geographical regions: the North European Plain; the Kura-Araks Basin of the Caucasus and; Bhutan.


    My Path = ( K-M9+, TL-P326+, T-M184+, L490+, M70+, PF5664+, L131+, L446+, CTS933+, CTS3767+, CTS8862+, Z19945+, Y70078+ )

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  5. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by vettor View Post
    The oldest T1 found is in modern Bulgaria on the black sea......the T2-Ph110 has only been discovered in 2015 and its stated as:
    T2 (T-PH110), the most basal primary branch of T-M184, has been found in three very separate geographical regions: the North European Plain; the Kura-Araks Basin of the Caucasus and; Bhutan.
    Thanks! LT though will ultimately derive from some very ancient upper Paleolithic Basal population in the Near East, T is clearly from Anatolia, I think Levant Chl shows this, though it strange why Barcin and those Aegean farmers lack it

  6. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by pegasus View Post
    Thanks! LT though will ultimately derive from some very ancient upper Paleolithic Basal population in the Near East, T is clearly from Anatolia, I think Levant Chl shows this, though it strange why Barcin and those Aegean farmers lack it
    If your definition of Near East is south of the Zargos mountain range, then this is wrong.......T is north of it........the only true very old Levant, Near East marker would be E .
    I once placed T with L in the Central Asian area.( somewhere around the map in this link https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dahae ).....now I think North Caucasus...........but I concede with Alpes that modern Bulgaria on the black sea is also a possibility..( he has made comments on this ).


    My Path = ( K-M9+, TL-P326+, T-M184+, L490+, M70+, PF5664+, L131+, L446+, CTS933+, CTS3767+, CTS8862+, Z19945+, Y70078+ )

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  8. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by vettor View Post
    If your definition of Near East is south of the Zargos mountain range, then this is wrong.......T is north of it........the only true very old Levant, Near East marker would be E .
    I once placed T with L in the Central Asian area.( somewhere around the map in this link https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dahae ).....now I think North Caucasus...........but I concede with Alpes that modern Bulgaria on the black sea is also a possibility..( he has made comments on this ).
    The Near East encompasses the Fertile Crescent, which encompasses the Zagros range naturally.

    Situated between the Arabian Desert to the south and the mountains of the Armenian Highland to the north, it extends from Babylonia and adjacent Elam (the southwestern province of Persia, also called Susiana) up the Tigris and Euphrates rivers to Assyria. From the Zagros Mountains east of Assyria it continues westward over Syria to the Mediterranean and extends southward to southern Palestine. T

    https://www.britannica.com/place/Fertile-Crescent

  9. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by pegasus View Post
    The Near East encompasses the Fertile Crescent, which encompasses the Zagros range naturally.

    Situated between the Arabian Desert to the south and the mountains of the Armenian Highland to the north, it extends from Babylonia and adjacent Elam (the southwestern province of Persia, also called Susiana) up the Tigris and Euphrates rivers to Assyria. From the Zagros Mountains east of Assyria it continues westward over Syria to the Mediterranean and extends southward to southern Palestine. T

    https://www.britannica.com/place/Fertile-Crescent
    ok
    then the the Kura-axes culture, armenian highlands and Proto-hurrian lands but not assyrian or mitanni lands are as noted, part of the Caucasus and not middle-east nor near-east .........we can also throw in modern Azerbaijan as part of the Caucasus.
    So, L and T are neither haplo. LT are part of the near-east but part of the Caucasus as per ancient studies


    My Path = ( K-M9+, TL-P326+, T-M184+, L490+, M70+, PF5664+, L131+, L446+, CTS933+, CTS3767+, CTS8862+, Z19945+, Y70078+ )

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