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Thread: N-M46

  1. #1
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    N-M46

    I was hoping to get some info on the N-M46 haplogroup, maybe find out if there are any other members here who are a part of it. I just got my 23andMe results this week and it said this was my paternal haplogroup.

    My father's family is from Finland. Grandpa was from Lapland (Tervola with ancestors in Kemijärvi and several other communities up north), Grandma was born in America to parents from Ylivieska and Töysä. I have been trying to find if I have any Sámi ancestry; it's not documented anywhere, but from other researchers I've been told it's not always easy to find as many people in the past tried to hide the fact that they're Sámi. 23andMe says I'm 47.9% Finnish, 1.8% Scandinavian.

    According to what I've read, N1c (formerly N3a), I1, and R1a are the most common Y-DNA haplogroups among Sámi. Is N-M46 close to N1c?

    I put all my info into Gedmatch and Saami comes up a lot on the MDLP K23b, but not closely; on the Oracle-4 fewest squares, Swede_Saami comes up at the top, but in the 5.9-ish range. Saami groups also get mentioned in 15 of the 20 results in the four-populations portion.

    Note: I have no idea what I'm doing, if I haven't made that abundantly clear yet.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by shutout52 View Post
    Is N-M46 close to N1c?
    They are not merely close; they are identical.

    N-M46 is labeled as N1a1-M46 according to ISOGG 2018. N1c, N3a, etc. are synonyms for the same haplogroup according to various older nomenclatures.

    Quote Originally Posted by shutout52 View Post
    According to what I've read, N1c (formerly N3a), I1, and R1a are the most common Y-DNA haplogroups among Sámi.
    Those are also the most common Y-DNA haplogroups among the Finns. N1a1-M46 is not a very diverse Y-DNA haplogroup (and especially so as regards its members in Europe). The Sámi languages and the Finnish language are quite closely related, and it is widely suspected that their N1a1-M46 ancestors may have been the original speakers of their common ancestral language, so I would not be surprised if their N1a1-M46 lineages are interrelated to a similar degree as their languages.

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  4. #3
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    I also got the the N-M46 haplogroup. I'm Turkish and my 23andme genetic test put me at 84.6% Middle Eastern (Turkish, Arab, Persian, etc.), but according to this haplogroup I believe my paternal line could come from northern central asia or siberia. According to , the Turkic Yakut people of siberia have a 90% frequency among this haplogroup. considering that Finnish people are considered Uralic and are part of the Altai-Ural language family, that could be the common ancestor.

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  6. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kizilnur View Post
    I also got the the N-M46 haplogroup. I'm Turkish and my 23andme genetic test put me at 84.6% Middle Eastern (Turkish, Arab, Persian, etc.), but according to this haplogroup I believe my paternal line could come from northern central asia or siberia. According to , the Turkic Yakut people of siberia have a 90% frequency among this haplogroup. considering that Finnish people are considered Uralic and are part of the Altai-Ural language family, that could be the common ancestor.
    You should buy an ftdna test if you want more detailed info about your haplogroup
    Of all the countries, this is possibly the most beautiful. All that is beautiful and can be rarely seen in
    other countries can be seen everywhere here... Here live the people who wear the cleanest clothes and prepare the
    most flavorful dishes... Of all of God’s servants, the local people are the most compassionate and merciful...

    Ibn Battuta about Asia Minor 1333CE

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  8. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kizilnur View Post
    I also got the the N-M46 haplogroup. I'm Turkish and my 23andme genetic test put me at 84.6% Middle Eastern (Turkish, Arab, Persian, etc.), but according to this haplogroup I believe my paternal line could come from northern central asia or siberia. According to , the Turkic Yakut people of siberia have a 90% frequency among this haplogroup. considering that Finnish people are considered Uralic and are part of the Altai-Ural language family, that could be the common ancestor.
    Where in Turkey are your ancestors from?

  9. #6
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    I would like to make a point here if you allow me.
    Ural-Altaic is an obsolete language-family and was nothing but a merely unsuccessful proposal; it has never proven and has been long discredited by almost every linguists. It was a hypothesis that was long debated, and today, it still remains a hypothesis which is mostly rejected. I know that curriculum in Turkey involves this hypothesis as if it is a proven fact but this is not even scientifically true.
    So, if you take your lead in genetic studies based on a hypothetical language-family, your research would direct you to such places that you don't even have a slight relation.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kizilnur View Post
    I also got the the N-M46 haplogroup. I'm Turkish and my 23andme genetic test put me at 84.6% Middle Eastern (Turkish, Arab, Persian, etc.), but according to this haplogroup I believe my paternal line could come from northern central asia or siberia. According to , the Turkic Yakut people of siberia have a 90% frequency among this haplogroup. considering that Finnish people are considered Uralic and are part of the Altai-Ural language family, that could be the common ancestor.
    Last edited by maydonez; 02-06-2018 at 06:41 PM.

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  11. #7
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    Afshar does the ftdna test have detailed info or is it european oriented? Also I think we have the same mtDNA (H4a)

    I mean my family is from Denizli but I have no idea about their ancestry. lack of last name kind of made tracking lineages hard.

    maydonez, I don't know much about the accuracy of the uralic-altaic language family theory and I wasn't educated in Turkey (I have lived in America all my life), but I just pointed that out because the N-M46 haplogroup is apparently most common in the turkic people of siberia (yakuts) and the uralic people of finland and their neighboring lands. So I assumed this genetic relation could be related to the linguistic one that is suggested
    Last edited by Kizilnur; 02-14-2018 at 12:31 PM.

  12. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kizilnur View Post
    Afshar does the ftdna test have detailed info or is it european oriented? Also I think we have the same mtDNA (H4a)

    I mean my family is from Denizli but I have no idea about their ancestry. lack of last name kind of made tracking lineages hard.

    maydonez, I don't know much about the accuracy of the uralic-altaic language family theory and I wasn't educated in Turkey (I have lived in America all my life), but I just pointed that out because the N-M46 haplogroup is apparently most common in the turkic people of siberia (yakuts) and the uralic people of finland and their neighboring lands. So I assumed this genetic relation could be related to the linguistic one that is suggested
    No mine is H14 not H4. 23andme only test for some SNPs, whereas family finder test are more regarding ydna are more comprehensive. You can for example start with a Y12 STR test (59$), which will probably give more info than 23andme.
    Of all the countries, this is possibly the most beautiful. All that is beautiful and can be rarely seen in
    other countries can be seen everywhere here... Here live the people who wear the cleanest clothes and prepare the
    most flavorful dishes... Of all of God’s servants, the local people are the most compassionate and merciful...

    Ibn Battuta about Asia Minor 1333CE

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  14. #9
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    Dear shutout52, I have the same paternal haplogroup N-M46. I am Finnish and my father's father was from Kemijärvi. However, many people moved up there from Central or Eastern Finland, like my great great grandfather, who moved there from Nurmes (Eastern Finland). Many Finns do have the same haplogroups than the Sami people. However, there is not necessarily a close common ancestor, but a remote one, possibly 1000 years ago.

  15. #10
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    My paternal haplogroup is N-M46 as per my brother's 23andMe results. However, my male 2nd cousin (our paternal grandfathers were brothers) is specifically N-M178, so is it safe I'm assuming we are all N-M178?
    (He tested with 23andMe awhile before my brother did, and matched perfectly as 2nd cousin to us both)

    The farthest I can trace on my male line is unfortunately only to my great-grandfather, Johann. He was born in the city of Oulu in 1881. I have not found any listing for his father.
    His mother (from Kärsämäki) gave him both her surname and a matrynomic (Reetanpoika). She did the same for his two sisters. I guess this means illegitimate? Kind of a bummer that I may never know my original paternal surname or the identity of this mystery man.

    I do know for sure that he is a full-blooded Finn thanks to DNA.

    DNA & Genealogy Together
    Father's ancestry: 100% Finnish (62.5% Oulu, 25% Tornio, 12.5% Kärsämäki); distant Swedish.
    Mother's ancestry: about 70% English, Scottish, some Irish. 25% German & Dutch. 5% Norwegian, other Scandinavian.

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