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Thread: Early Bronze Age to roman era DNA from Syria

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    Early Bronze Age to roman era DNA from Syria

    http://www.plosone.org/article/info:...l.pone.0073682

    I am very happy that this paper is open access. The results surprised me a lot. Are these traders and slaves as some suggested? Mittani? Proof of a wider spread of Haplogroup M beyond the subcontinent?

    Personally i find it hard to believe that 4 ancient DNA unearthed from different locations and from different times are all conincidentally traders and slaves. There must be a bigger picture here.
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    Quote Originally Posted by soulblighter View Post
    http://www.plosone.org/article/info:...l.pone.0073682

    I am very happy that this paper is open access. The results surprised me a lot. Are these traders and slaves as some suggested? Mittani? Proof of a wider spread of Haplogroup M beyond the subcontinent?

    Personally i find it hard to believe that 4 ancient DNA unearthed from different locations and from different times are all conincidentally traders and slaves. There must be a bigger picture here.
    Thanks for the post, soulblighter. I too find it hard to believe that they would be traders/slaves, given the time period separating the samples. Although, I suppose, anything is possible.

    I was disappointed that they did not include previous ancient mtDNA data from the area in their analysis.

    From a post of mine at another forum (most of the data is based on Jean Manco's fine page, here):

    Code:
    Y-DNA
    Neolithic 1 A1b1b2b Nubia xxxxxx "A-M13 was found at high frequencies..." Iron Age 2 E1b1a Egypt 20Dyn ~1155 BC Ramesses III, Twentieth Dynasty (New Kingdom) Meroitic (300 BC to 400 AD, Pre-Islamic Sudan) 3 F-M89 Sudan xxxxxx "F-M89 and YAP[DE] appeared to be more frequent..." 4 YAP Sudan xxxxxx "F-M89 and YAP[DE] appeared to be more frequent..."
    mtDNA
    Note: mtDNA haplogroups and subclades may not be current with the most recent version of the PhyloTree. Neolithic 1 T2b Syria PPNB 7400-6700 BC 2 H or K Syria PPNB 6800-6000 BC 3 ? Syria PPNB 6800-6000 BC 4 T2b Syria PPNB 6800-6000 BC 5 T2b Syria PPNB 6800-6000 BC 6 H5 Syria PPNB 6800-6000 BC 7 K? Syria PPNB 6800-6000 BC 8 R? Syria PPNB 6800-6000 BC 9 L2a1 Syria PPNB 6800-6000 BC 10 L2a1 Syria PPNB 6800-6000 BC 11 H Syria PPNB 6000-5750 BC 12 K Syria PPNB 6000-5750 BC 13 K Syria PPNB 6000-5750 BC 14 C1 Syria PPNB 6000-5750 BC 15 H3a? Turkey Halaf 6000-5800 BC 16 ? Turkey Halaf 6000-5800 BC 17 ? Turkey Halaf 6000-5800 BC 18 H3a? Turkey ------ 6000-4000 BC 19 ? Turkey ------ 6000-4000 BC 20 ? Turkey ------ 6000-4000 BC Copper Age / Chalcolithic 21 H3a Turkey Ubaid 5000-4500 BC 22 U3a Israel ------ 4490-4335 BC 23 H? Israel ------ 4460-4365 BC 24 H6 Israel ------ 4240-4065 BC 25 H? Israel ------ 3765‐3650 BC Bronze Age 26 H14a Syria Sumer 2900-2700 BC Site in Syria 27 U4 Syria Sumer 2900-2700 BC Site in Syria 28 U4a2b Syria Sumer 2900-2700 BC Site in Syria 29 R Syria Sumer ----2550 BC---- Site in Syria 30 J1a1 Syria Sumer ----2550 BC---- Site in Syria 31 L2a1 Syria Sumer ----2550 BC---- Site in Syria 32 K Syria Amorite 2650–2450 BC Site in Syria (Amorite?) 33 M49 Syria ----- 2650–2450 BC Terqa (Tell Ashara), Syria 34 M61 Syria ----- 2200–1900 BC Terqa (Tell Ashara), Syria Iron Age 35 I2 Egypt Egyptian 402-385 BC Egyptian Mummy - Third Intermediate and Graeco-Roman times 36 H or V? Israel Jewish ---0-100 AD--- Tomb of the Shroud, Akeldama, Jerusalem 37 H or V? Israel Jewish ---0-100 AD--- Tomb of the Shroud, Akeldama, Jerusalem 38 H Israel Jewish ---0-100 AD--- Tomb of the Shroud, Akeldama, Jerusalem 39 H or J1 Israel Jewish ---0-100 AD--- Tomb of the Shroud, Akeldama, Jerusalem 40 W? Israel Jewish ---0-100 AD--- Tomb of the Shroud, Akeldama, Jerusalem 41 W? Israel Jewish ---0-100 AD--- Tomb of the Shroud, Akeldama, Jerusalem 42 W? Israel Jewish ---0-100 AD--- Tomb of the Shroud, Akeldama, Jerusalem 43 W Israel Jewish ---0-100 AD--- Tomb of the Shroud, Akeldama, Jerusalem 44 W Israel Jewish ---0-100 AD--- Tomb of the Shroud, Akeldama, Jerusalem 45 ? Israel Jewish ---0-100 AD--- Tomb of the Shroud, Akeldama, Jerusalem 46 ? Israel Jewish ---0-100 AD--- Tomb of the Shroud, Akeldama, Jerusalem Roman 47 J1c2 Bulg. Roman 1st Century AD May have been prominent figure among early Christians. From "John the Baptist" documentary. 48 H2a2b1 SY/IT Roman --c. 150 AD-- Luke the Evangelist. Born Antioch, Syria; buried Padua, Italy 49 M49 Syria Late Roman 200–300 AD Tell Masaikh, Syria 50 M4b Syria Late Roman 500–700 AD Tell Masaikh, Syria
    Last edited by Humanist; 11-02-2013 at 02:48 PM.

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    Razib Khan has an interesting post on these results.
    Ancient people were not static: http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gn...re-not-static/

    If you are a even moderately familiar with the human mtDNA phylogeographic literature then you know that haplogroup M is not West Eurasian, and these lineages are often South Asian. The existence of people of South Asian origin in West Asia during the Roman period is rather unsurprising, the Persian (and Hellenistic) polities spanned West and South Asia (albeit, in a liminal sense in the latter case). But what about extremely ancient finds? This too has an explanation. From Brotherhood of Kings: How International Relations Shaped the Ancient Near East:

    …around 2060 BCe, in the Ur III period, men from the “Meluhha village” were mentioned…living and working next to local Mesopotamians.
    ...

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    Razib Khan has an interesting post on these results.
    Ancient people were not static: http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gn...re-not-static/

    If you are a even moderately familiar with the human mtDNA phylogeographic literature then you know that haplogroup M is not West Eurasian, and these lineages are often South Asian. The existence of people of South Asian origin in West Asia during the Roman period is rather unsurprising, the Persian (and Hellenistic) polities spanned West and South Asia (albeit, in a liminal sense in the latter case). But what about extremely ancient finds? This too has an explanation. From Brotherhood of Kings: How International Relations Shaped the Ancient Near East:

    …around 2060 BCe, in the Ur III period, men from the “Meluhha village” were mentioned…living and working next to local Mesopotamians.
    ...
    Thanks for the link, Jean. On a related note, from my post here.

    I asked a question a few months ago, on another forum, regarding the possible genetic and linguistic impact on the Assyrian Heartland, in the 8th and 7th centuries BCE, and beyond, by this fact:

    Origin points for ~90% of deportations to the Assyrian Heartland.

    Font size = % reported in Roads and Mass Deportations in the Neo-Assyrian Empire (David Danzig 2011)

    [Image omitted]

    From the Danzig paper, including some possible ideas regarding languages spoken in the regions in question (added by me).

    Sources for all Neo-Assyrian deportations, to all destinations, in descending order of frequency:

    56.7% Southern Zagros / Elam and Babylonia (Elamite, Akkadian, Iranian*, Indo-Iranian??)
    18.4% Middle and South Levant (Canaanite related languages (i.e. ancient Hebrew), NW Semitic (i.e. Old Aramaic))
    8.0% Anatolia (W/C Anatolian Indo-European (e.g. Luwian, Hittite), Hurrian?**)
    5.0% Northern Zagros and Foothills (Hurro-Urartian?, Akkadian, Iranian*, Indo-Iranian (e.g. Median?))
    4.5% North Levant / Upper Euphrates Elbow (NW Semitic (i.e. Old Aramaic), W/C Anatolian Indo-European (e.g. Luwian, Hittite), Hurrian?)
    3.5% Lakes Van and Urmia (Hurro-Urartian related languages, E Anatolian IE (proto-Armenian or Armenian?))
    2.0% Euphrates and Tigris Sources (Hurro-Urartian related languages?, E Anatolian IE (proto-Armenian or Armenian?), W/C Anatolian Indo-European?? (e.g. Luwian, Hittite))
    2.0% Habur Area / Jazira (NW Semitic (i.e. Old Aramaic), Akkadian, Hurrian?)

    * Not Indo-Iranian. Or, at least not from what I have been able to understand from the record.
    ** This may be a bit late for an actual "Hurrian." Not late for a "Hurro-Urartian" related language, of course (i.e. Urartian).
    Last edited by Humanist; 09-14-2013 at 01:26 PM.

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    Useful paper from David Danzig.

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    Total shot in the dark, but has anyone compiled any more ancient Near Eastern haplogroup data?

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    wow big ancient dna is full of surprise mtdna type m49 acuure
    twice in 2650bc-2450 bc and than again in 200-300 ad
    this mtdna type is very eastern shows up in india and myanmar here look http://www.ianlogan.co.uk/sequences_..._sequences.htm
    i guess ancient syria dna is unpredicted
    truly amazing
    regards
    adam

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    Fascinating article with really interesting results - especially as that ancient Terqa Syrian individual matches my mtdna. Has there been any more updates as to what those haplogroups were doing out in the middle east?

    23andme has my mtdna down as M4b
    James Lick's mthap utility has me down as M65a (C16311T)

    It appears that the M4b haplotype is fairly widespread ranging from S Arabia, Pakistan, Chitral, Ladkh, Tibet, Andhra Pradesh, UP as well as Burma.

    See http://www.ianlogan.co.uk/discussion/hap_M4.htm and the attached image from http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...-0109331-g001/

    m4b.jpg

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    When we talk about Bronze age settlements , I think Ebla is one of the most important sites .
    It is situated in north western part of Syria in Idlib Governorate , and is considered to be one of the earliest kingdoms in the world
    Ebla was first settled around 3500 BC ,and its golden age is from 3000 BC to 2300 BC until it was destroyed by Akkadians
    the it was reestablished many times
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ebla

    and as they said here ,they had found many human remains in the site
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ebla#Royal_burials
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ebla#Western_palace_tombs
    but maybe they didn't make genetic studies on those remains because I haven't heard yet about any ancient DNA from this place in the Internet

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    Another set of Indian mtdna in Iron Age (500BC) SE Anatolia.


    http://aramepal.blogspot.am/2016/08/...on-modern.html
    Last edited by Arame; 09-17-2016 at 07:51 AM.

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