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Thread: Romanian test and calculator results--your comments

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    Quote Originally Posted by vettor View Post
    The site itself is far from professional. It is no substitute for the actual books. But at least, it is in English, more or less.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fungene View Post
    Thatís also an important element to the discussion. The more one digs into an issue, the more one finds that things that people thought were settled might be open for discussion.

    A case in point: beliefs about the evolution of the Romanian language. The most up-to-date, extensive work in this area is Mihai Vinereanuís:
    Mihai Vinereanuís Dictionar Etimologic (2008) and his Radacini Nostratice in Limba Romana (2010) are available as e-publications.

    The first work is the only complete etymological dictionary of Romanian based on more recent research on the reconstruction of Indo-European languages. The earlier attempts by Alexandru Cihac , Alexandru Cioranescu, Heimann Hariton Tiktin, and Sextil Puscariu are quite a bit older and are perhaps more the efforts of dilettantes.

    That Thraco-Illyrian-Dacian was an Indo-European language belonging to the Italo-Celtic group is the guiding hypothesis of Vinereanuís dictionary (his first book). With this hypothesis, he can more comprehensively account for the etymology of Romanian words than rival accounts, which see Romanian as being derived from Latin. Under that rival hypothesis, the majority of words (over 85%) would be derived from other languages. That would make Romanian a creole (like Haitian.) But Romanian syntax suggests that Romanian is not a creole.

    Thatís the outline of his general argument (the conclusion is obvious). The Dictionar is the go-to resource that Romanian linguists ought to be debating. As for anything, there is sure to be room for serious debate. Not much is happening on that front.

    A few points. This work should not be put in the same category as revisionistic attempts to argue that French and Spanish are not derived from Latin. Vinereanuís work is independent of these efforts. Also, his work can be read even if one brackets the authorís personal beliefs that Indo-European languages were brought to Europe with the process of Neolithization and that Indo-European languages are part of a larger Nostratic macrofamily of languages.

    In fact, if ever find time, I will write a few comments on why I think Radacine, Vinereanuís second work, is particularly intriguing in spite of his erroneous belief about the Neolithic in Europe.
    Another point of view about what Dacian Language (or proto-language) might have been sounded like, is coming all the way from Lithuania... (that would explain some "Slavic" loan words from Romanian language been in fact old Dacian... oh, and combined with proto Slavic being a Balto-Slavic language):

    http://www.lituanus.org/1992_2/92_2_02.htm
    Last edited by Dumidre; 01-29-2018 at 07:06 PM.

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    so, what are the main contributors to Romanian DNA and what are the minor contributors?

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    Quote Originally Posted by JerryS. View Post
    so, what are the main contributors to Romanian DNA and what are the minor contributors?
    That’s a good question, based on solid common sense. You’d think that someone would have already devised a research program to address it. If they have, I am not aware of it. There is still too much preoccupation with Romans and Dacians.

    A very broad, back-of-the-envelope, amateur outline of an answer in terms of ancient populations, given everything available to people who frequent this Board — especially research papers from the past couple of years, but also information shared by individuals about commercial test results— could be this:
    Probably, Romanians are by-and-large EEF with a substantial steppe contribution. They have a bit more of it (meaning, steppe) than Bulgarians; Northeast Romanians have even more. All things considered, and this is a big surprise for some Romanians, they have less steppe ancestry than Europeans farther to the north and west.
    But this is a very broad reply. To be more precise, the correct answer is that there is no answer, for the moment. Not because the question is unanswerable, but because no one is working on it. Quoting Herodotus and Pomponius Mela won’t cut it.
    Last edited by Fungene; 01-30-2018 at 12:01 PM. Reason: sp

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    Not enough testing in my opinion...

    Hellenthal et al, Science (2014) did some research... take a look:

    http://admixturemap.paintmychromosomes.com/

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dumidre View Post
    Not enough testing in my opinion...
    About that, you are right.

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    I ask this because when I use the Oracle 4 population groups for several models, I get Romanian often as one of the four. I realize the Oracle 4 isn't any good for ethnicities less than 25%, and I have no Romanian ancestors.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fungene View Post
    This is a thread for discussing any thoughts you might have on commercial testing company results or calculators you have tried out, as long as the discussion involves, in some way, attributions of Romanian ancestry. It is not restricted to 23andMe results.
    If you have any additional insight that you have gathered from researching information (...other than Wikipedia) that could shed light on your Romanian ancestry, please feel free to let us know.
    You might have seen the 23andme results that I've gathered from across Romania. My conclusion is that the Romanian admixture looks like a chronology of the people that passed (some remained), raided (some raped) and settled on the territory of what's now Romania and Moldova.

    The primary mix for the average Romanian is formed from:
    • A sheep-herding population native to the Balkans (IMO, these may be representative of the Dacians and other proto-Balkanic people that they've assimilated)
    • Slavs, of the Ruthenian variety in the East and North (Ruthenians are still being assimilated into the Romanian population in Eastern Romania and especially in R. Moldova), Bulgarian in the South, Serbian in the Southwest
    • Steppe people who carried the extra steppe and introduced some East Asian into the mix (Pechenegs, Cumans, Tatars, Huns and Mongols)


    In addition to these, there may be some regional variation on top, such as:
    • Central-European mix due to Hungarians
    • Northwestern mix due to Germans
    • Gagauz due to Turks (this is a continuum on the Western shore of the Black Sea, running from Moldova/Ukraine to Southern Bulgaria)
    • South Asian/MENA due to Gypsies

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dorkymon View Post
    You might have seen the 23andme results that I've gathered[/LIST]
    Great job collecting that. I don't think I've seen anything similar online for other countries.
    About what modern results show about what happened: It's still too early to tell. I am of the opinion that we will have to start from much earlier populations and move our way forward. The major studies on ancient DNA from 2015 onwards have set the groundwork. I see no research program in Romania, and that is what we will need.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JerryS. View Post
    I ask this because when I use the Oracle 4 population groups for several models, I get Romanian often as one of the four. I realize the Oracle 4 isn't any good for ethnicities less than 25%, and I have no Romanian ancestors.....
    LOL! I think most of us have faced this issue. The 4-population Oracle for the Eurogenes K13, which is one the best for me, gives me all kinds of Italian populations; when it's not Tuscan, it is Italian Abruzzo, or South Italian. My Italian ancestors will be in good company with your Romanian ancestors in some alternate universe.

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