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Thread: Can someone help me get to the bottom of this(South Asian Muslim)?

  1. #21
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    I would also use the gedmatch one to many comparison tool to see what matches you get on the segments 23andMe has marked as Mid-East. Do a large number of MENA matches appear on these segments? (Keep in mind, however, that their database is mainly Euro, so an absence of Mid East/ Afghan matches won't necessarily be informative....)

    Also, maybe see if Kurd will analyze your data...

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  3. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmoney View Post
    The Maharashtrian Harappa sample is Brahmin so might be atypical for Marathis. Inland Vidarbha Marathis would differ even further from Brahmins
    Yes, I saw VarunR's results and realized just how dramatic the difference between Brahmins and non-Brahmins can be in south/central India. Muslims are often mixed caste. Now if my mom has low caste/tribal/untouchable origins then that would render the Marathi sample absolutely irrelevant.

    Quote Originally Posted by khanabadoshi View Post
    Do you have a 1st/2nd cousin from your Father's side whose parents are both from the same family? (ie. your cousin's parents are related). That way you can get a gist of what your Father's side is like without testing an elder. You can do the same for your Mother's side as well. Find a cousin less mixed than you from each side, this is the next best option.
    My cousin actually got tested but he's from a family just as mixed as mine so no help there. Overall both sides of the family are just way too conservative and wouldn't give any of this stuff the time of day, although there is a chance that I could convince my dad to do one especially if there's a sale.

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  5. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmoney View Post
    The Maharashtrian Harappa sample is Brahmin so might be atypical for Marathis. Inland Vidarbha Marathis would differ even further from Brahmins
    It's only based on one person?

    So I guess I need to add Marathis to the list of ethnic groups to find and make an average for.

    OK, we seriously need to make a proper list of what we don't have. But first order of business tonight is send Poi a list of what I do have. ... after I sleep.. I have work again tonight, gonna be 56 hours since Friday, hence my lack of spreadsheet-sending skills. But tonight is the last 8 hrs for the week... no one is gonna bother me, probably because I almost murdered everyone this morning. So, I'm gonna sit at my desk, power up the laptop, tell everyone to "just handle it", run Windows Update but not restart -- cuz I gotta update Adobe Flash Player and forget to uncheck my consent to the exclusive opportunity to McAffee© myself -- computer restarts automatically cuz BSoD, and I like the efficiency of this cycle........ anywhose. after all that and maybe a lil' YouTube sesh in between, I'll open Excel.

    Maybe I'll find that Qazi too...

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  7. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by khanabadoshi View Post
    It's only based on one person?

    So I guess I need to add Marathis to the list of ethnic groups to find and make an average for.

    OK, we seriously need to make a proper list of what we don't have. But first order of business tonight is send Poi a list of what I do have. ... after I sleep.. I have work again tonight, gonna be 56 hours since Friday, hence my lack of spreadsheet-sending skills. But tonight is the last 8 hrs for the week... no one is gonna bother me, probably because I almost murdered everyone this morning. So, I'm gonna sit at my desk, power up the laptop, tell everyone to "just handle it", run Windows Update but not restart -- cuz I gotta update Adobe Flash Player and forget to uncheck my consent to the exclusive opportunity to McAffee© myself -- computer restarts automatically cuz BSoD, and I like the efficiency of this cycle........ anywhose. after all that and maybe a lil' YouTube sesh in between, I'll open Excel.

    Maybe I'll find that Qazi too...
    Get your ass back to work for the real boss (genica) Khana, no foolin around

    @Kush was that one Marathi Brahmin sample or more than 1?

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    Your results look similar to south indian middle castes as other members here have opined. I wouldn't guess any outside ancestry at first sight .But if you have 1or2 Afghan ancestors 5 or 6 generations ago it will be hard to tell . On the other hand from the results of misanthropy it is evident that he have yemeni ancestry since the yemenis are quite different from South Asians genetically so even small ancestry will be more evident .

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  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by BMG View Post
    Your results look similar to south indian middle castes as other members here have opined. I wouldn't guess any outside ancestry at first sight .But if you have 1or2 Afghan ancestors 5 or 6 generations ago it will be hard to tell . On the other hand from the results of misanthropy it is evident that he have yemeni ancestry since the yemenis are quite different from South Asians genetically so even small ancestry will be more evident .
    How far back would such an ancestor have to be if there are still phenotypic influences 2 generations since the grandparent? I’d imagine the influence gets washed out after 4 or less generations.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Censored View Post
    How far back would such an ancestor have to be if there are still phenotypic influences 2 generations since the grandparent? I’d imagine the influence gets washed out after 4 or less generations.
    The cut-off is a firm 5 generations. It is possible to express any phenotype from any ancestor within the last 5 generations. Your parents, grandparents, great-grandparents, great-great grandparents, great-great-great grandparents.

    It was actually the next question I was going to ask you. What generation in your family still shows these "non-local" phenotypes? Is it still evident in your generation? Or was it last evident in your grandfather's generation? Perhaps some in your Father's and his siblings or Cousins, but in none of your siblings or cousins generation?
    Thin in terms You+All paternal 1st and 2nd Cousins as a generation, then the same for each above them. Maybe even count it out... 1/17 people had it in this gen, 4/25 in that generation, etc.

    Last generation that shows this phenotype, tells us that the ancestor was exactly 5 (or 4, because 5th may not express trait, even though it was possible) gens before them. At the very least, we can say with high confidence that the ancestor can't be 6 generations or more removed from the last trace of the phenotype. Because we know the date of birth of at least one of person in the last generation to show the phenotype and probably the DOB and DOD of 1-2 generations above them, we can even accurately assume the timeframe of the non-local ancestor's arrival in the region within 10-20 years. With a general date, we can then look at general historical record of population movements to and from Hyderabad in this time.

    PS. you said you had pictures you could PM me? I normally don't use phenotypes to make assumptions, but in your case it may be useful. I am pretty familiar with the phenotypes within Pakistan, especially of the smaller or fringe populations that most people haven't interacted with. So maybe something will stand out to me as being unique to a certain group.
    Last edited by khanabadoshi; 02-14-2018 at 08:40 AM.
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  14. #28
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    On Harappa , Lezgin for S/SC Asians infers something modal between CHG and Iran_N , Kalash come out as 20-25% Lezgin on their oracles, as do Pashtuns, it does not mean you have actual Lezgin/Chechen ancestry. Its a combination of archaic Zagrosian ancestry coupled with Yamna related CHG brought by Indo Iranian related groups.

  15. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by khanabadoshi View Post
    The cut-off is a firm 5 generations. It is possible to express any phenotype from any ancestor within the last 5 generations. Your parents, grandparents, great-grandparents, great-great grandparents, great-great-great grandparents.

    It was actually the next question I was going to ask you. What generation in your family still shows these "non-local" phenotypes? Is it still evident in your generation? Or was it last evident in your grandfather's generation? Perhaps some in your Father's and his siblings or Cousins, but in none of your siblings or cousins generation?
    Thin in terms You+All paternal 1st and 2nd Cousins as a generation, then the same for each above them. Maybe even count it out... 1/17 people had it in this gen, 4/25 in that generation, etc.

    Last generation that shows this phenotype, tells us that the ancestor was exactly 5 (or 4, because 5th may not express trait, even though it was possible) gens before them. At the very least, we can say with high confidence that the ancestor can't be 6 generations or more removed from the last trace of the phenotype. Because we know the date of birth of at least one of person in the last generation to show the phenotype and probably the DOB and DOD of 1-2 generations above them, we can even accurately assume the timeframe of the non-local ancestor's arrival in the region within 10-20 years. With a general date, we can then look at general historical record of population movements to and from Hyderabad in this time.

    PS. you said you had pictures you could PM me? I normally don't use phenotypes to make assumptions, but in your case it may be useful. I am pretty familiar with the phenotypes within Pakistan, especially of the smaller or fringe populations that most people haven't interacted with. So maybe something will stand out to me as being unique to a certain group.
    I think it's present in all generations including mine but it seems to have gotten watered down each time. So one of my cousins has very pale skin by Indian(and especially south Indian standards) and another is a girl with brown hair and pale skin. That's my generation so you have to keep in mind that this is after a good amount of outbreeding. I personally look like I could be Bihari or something so nothing special with me lol, other cousins look South Indian.

    However my dad and his siblings are really damn pale but still with strong Indian features, you'll get to see some of them when I PM you with family pics, which is probably tomorrow. There aren't a lot of pics of my grandpa himself but there's some cousins of my dad who look fully Middle Eastern/Afghan due to being inbred and retaining those features lol. Getting pics of some of them might be hard but I'll do my best.

    One of my fears is that my dad's family might actually be more heterogeneous than I thought, meaning there is more than one type of foreign ancestry.

    By the way, is using AP-Hyderabad sample from harappa really a good idea? If it includes Hyderabadi Muslims then they might already be admixed with some kind of foreign ancestry, so using it as a benchmark for my dad might not make sense. We've already established the Marathi sample isn't a good representation of my mom, too. But I'm dying to get my dad tested. I've increasingly become more curious about my mom's ancestry rather than just my dad's-I think it would be really interesting if they have some sort of link to Indian tribals.
    Last edited by Censored; 02-14-2018 at 09:37 AM.

  16. #30
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    You need to test DNA of at least one of your parents to get better idea.

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