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Thread: Alphabet Soup -- Regional Languages Discussion.

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    Alphabet Soup -- Regional Languages Discussion.

    All discussion/questions pertaining to regional languages that don't deserve their own threads, or are causing another thread to veer off course, go here.

    F. ex. language comparisons, etymologies, general wordlists, etc. Since this is a Hindi subforum, moderated by 2 non-Hindi-speakers, I'm going to go ahead and say anything non-Hindustani related should start out in this thread. Perhaps we will make separate dedicated stickied threads for languages/topics that are generating lots of discussion.
    Last edited by khanabadoshi; 02-17-2018 at 04:36 AM.
    “Chahar chez est tohfay Multan, Gard-o- Garma, Gada-o- Goristan”.

    Four things are the gift of Multan: Dusty winds, hot seasons, beggars and graveyards.




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    What's the interest level in having an actual Bengali language thread on here? Like with writing in Bengali script as well. I'm just saying since we do have a sizeable number of Bengalis on here although I'm not sure how many are Bengali reading/writing capable. I'd love to at least be able to bring in articles from banglapedia for discussion on anthropological subjects in the Bengali language, and if we can, over time, maybe even delve into genetic subjects also in Bengali. Not sure how possible latter is. The desire stems from graduating our languages from just a humanities level to actually scientifically/technologically capable. While we are amateurs both in the language as well as in the science, it may attract the right crowds over.

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    ^^ I say go for it. Just start one, people will come. People will increase their literacy in the language if there is a space for it here. It will be good to have a place for those interested to practice, learn, teach, etc. It's hard to practice reading/writing for those who are in the diaspora. I think it's really good idea.
    I will sticky all language-specific threads so that they stay on the top of the subforum.
    “Chahar chez est tohfay Multan, Gard-o- Garma, Gada-o- Goristan”.

    Four things are the gift of Multan: Dusty winds, hot seasons, beggars and graveyards.




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    Great idea redifflal.

    I must profess, my formal Bangla isn't particular good, let alone my literacy in written Bangla. Sylheti and that's a different matter!

    But it might be a useful way to learn, explore more about the language... There is actually much to talk about.

    Being British born, unfortunately I never did get the opportunity to receive any formal education in Bangla. Had to learn to read and write pretty much off my own back, and help from parents. The large variations between dialectal Bangla and shuddho Bangla doesn't help matters.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reza View Post
    Great idea redifflal.

    I must profess, my formal Bangla isn't particular good, let alone my literacy in written Bangla. Sylheti and that's a different matter!

    But it might be a useful way to learn, explore more about the language... There is actually much to talk about.

    Being British born, unfortunately I never did get the opportunity to receive any formal education in Bangla. Had to learn to read and write pretty much off my own back, and help from parents. The large variations between dialectal Bangla and shuddho Bangla doesn't help matters.
    Reza I understand the struggle. I do believe and support both language positivity as well as dialect positivity. There are no hard fast rules that an internet Bengali conversation has to be in the standard dialect. Matter of fact I have noticed many Bangladeshi friends actually change the spelling while writing in Bangla as well online to match their pronunciation. E.g. most easy one is "I was eating". In standard it would be "aami khach-chhilam". It would be spelled "আমি খাচ্ছিলাম". Now in the shadhu bhasha this would be "aami khai-te-chhilam" or in Bengali letters "আমি খাইতেছিলাম". In Dhaka dialect I'd imagine this turns to "aami khai-ta-silam", and that is because what is chh in West Bengal becomes s in east. But what I'm noticing in social media is that users of these dialects are making the Bengali spelling to match the pronunciation as in "আমি খাইতাসিলাম". Now these aren't folks making a spelling mistake. It is done consciously. And I honestly support this. I think the Sylheti dialect turns the kh into h (which is also what Ahomiya language does), so you guys would say haitasilam or "হাইতাসিলাম".

    I actually have a theory on how these dialect pronunciation differences came about by geography, but there is literally no scholarship again on such items, at least not on the internet. My theory is from the little shadhu bhasha or the old Sanskrit-to-modern-Bangla continuum language that I do know for clues in certain words. Example the word for year in shadhu bhasha is বৎসর or baw-t-shore. In the standard dialect which is from West Bengal, this becomes বছর or baw-chhore. In Bangladesh this becomes pronounced as baw-sore but like I said many Bangladeshis on social media etc are spelling this consciously now to match their pronunciation as বসর. So the key I think is in the shadhu bhasha and then to track down how it evolved from there. This word for year and the word for fish (মৎস - মচ্ছ - মাছ or motsho from Sanskrit matsya to mochchho to maachh in the west while in east this also possibly gave way to maas?) is the basis for my theory that modern standard Bangla converts all the hard stopping t's followed by s into chh whereas in eastern dialects they went with making the t silent and kept the sh but also pronounced it as s which is technically the correct pronunciation anyway as far as the dental s being used.
    I've been itching to post on stuff like this though, but I'm not sure if this theory is immature and ill conceived or on the money, and there is literally no online forums to hash this out. Dialect differences in the present and potential unity in past is definitely a point of interest.

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    I've stickied the Bengali thread.
    “Chahar chez est tohfay Multan, Gard-o- Garma, Gada-o- Goristan”.

    Four things are the gift of Multan: Dusty winds, hot seasons, beggars and graveyards.




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    Quote Originally Posted by sudkol View Post
    I visited Kinnaur to record samples of the endangered language spoken there in different valleys along with this friend who in 2015 went to UC Berkeley as a visiting scholar to present this work. During those data collection surveys, I got a chance to ask people about their historical roots. Some claimed they were Rajputs from the plains who migrated up during the Islamic period. Some claimed that that came to Kinnaur from a more Northern location. I am guessing they could be an offshoot of the Brokpa or an earlier parent population.

    I have a big volume on Kinnaur on my book shelf. Let me quote the great British-Greek mountaineer author, Marco Pallis about the people of Sangla valley-
    'a peculiar race inhabits Chitkul and its sister villages of Raksam and Sangla, who affiinities I have not been able to ascertain. There is no trace of the Mongoloid in their faces, neither do they look like Indians. They are all powerful and strikingly beautiful.'

    I am not trying to show off neither I am trying to attack anyone. I am putting a new point up for discussion. And since there is resistance to it, I am giving these references.
    Do the Sangla people speak Kinnauri or some indo-aryan language?

    People from the himalayas all the way till pamir have some 'mongoloid' in them. I have no idea why some here jump 20 feet away when mongoloid gets mentioned. LMFAO.
    Even I have some mongoloid in me genetically, it shows in a peculiar way on my face and I love it. It feels great when people say I look 1/25 sometimes 1/2 Japanese at times.

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    Quote Originally Posted by surbakhunWeesste View Post
    Do the Sangla people speak Kinnauri or some indo-aryan language?

    People from the himalayas all the way till pamir have some 'mongoloid' in them. I have no idea why some here jump 20 feet away when mongoloid gets mentioned. LMFAO.
    Even I have some mongoloid in me genetically, it shows in a peculiar way on my face and I love it. It feels great when people say I look 1/25 sometimes 1/2 Japanese at times.
    They speak Kinnauri which is not Indo-Aryan. Yes, people are still obsessed with the purity narrative I think. This also comes down to us from the Europeans who thought pure Aryans could be found in isolated pockets of North India and Pakistan. In the last post, I attached some pics- a Kinnauri girl, the second and third Brokpa women and the fourth are Kalash girls. I think Brokpa and some Kinnauris (at least the ones in Sangla valley) could be a Kalash type population mixed with neighboring Ladakhi, Lahauli and Tibetans. Apparently the term 'Brokpa' derives from the Tibetan word for Turk. The Ladakhis took the Brokpa to be Turks!

    Out of curiosity, where are you from ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by sudkol View Post
    They speak Kinnauri which is not Indo-Aryan. Yes, people are still obsessed with the purity narrative I think. This also comes down to us from the Europeans who thought pure Aryans could be found in isolated pockets of North India and Pakistan. In the last post, I attached some pics- a Kinnauri girl, the second and third Brokpa women and the fourth are Kalash girls. I think Brokpa and some Kinnauris (at least the ones in Sangla valley) could be a Kalash type population mixed with neighboring Ladakhi, Lahauli and Tibetans. Apparently the term 'Brokpa' derives from the Tibetan word for Turk. The Ladakhis took the Brokpa to be Turks!

    Out of curiosity, where are you from ?
    Wow i didnt know Kinnauri was Sino-Tibetan

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    Quote Originally Posted by sudkol View Post
    They speak Kinnauri which is not Indo-Aryan. Yes, people are still obsessed with the purity narrative I think. This also comes down to us from the Europeans who thought pure Aryans could be found in isolated pockets of North India and Pakistan. In the last post, I attached some pics- a Kinnauri girl, the second and third Brokpa women and the fourth are Kalash girls. I think Brokpa and some Kinnauris (at least the ones in Sangla valley) could be a Kalash type population mixed with neighboring Ladakhi, Lahauli and Tibetans. Apparently the term 'Brokpa' derives from the Tibetan word for Turk. The Ladakhis took the Brokpa to be Turks!

    Out of curiosity, where are you from ?
    Quote Originally Posted by sudkol View Post
    The other story that's really popular all over these areas is the one about descendants of Alexander. From Kalash to Bangani in Uttarakhand to Malana in Himachal, all claim to be descended from Alexander. No idea if this is an urban legend or there is any truth to it.
    you probably mean my ethnicity? Afghan Pashtun

    Have you come across these people, if yes, can you post your personal opinion on them: their language and culture to be specific.

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