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Thread: Alphabet Soup -- Regional Languages Discussion.

  1. #251
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    Quote Originally Posted by kaazi View Post
    Sidhhartha- the one from Shakya clan. His mother was Maya Devi, she was from a Koli family from Parasi Ramgram, not too distant from Nepal's capital. These Kolis later entered Kathmandu and formed a settlement called 'Dakshina Koligrama" (south Koli village) and are likely assimilated into the Newar agriculturalist caste, Jyapu.
    What is this based on? source?

  2. #252
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    Traditionally the eight clans of the Nepal/E UP/N Bihar border zone.
    Sakiya, Koliya, Buli, Bhagga, Kalama, Moriya, Mall and Lichchhavi
    The rising power of first Kosal and then Magadh ended the republican clans.

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  4. #253
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    Quote Originally Posted by discreetmaverick View Post
    What is this based on? source?
    It's well known fact about Buddha's Koli/Koliya maternal clan. Buddha's mother was from Ramagrama, Parasi; father from Tilaurakot, Kapilvastu; and his birthplace was in Lumbini, Rupandehi, all 3 different districts of Lumbini Province. It's interesting if you wanna visit Nepal.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramagrama_stupa

    About Kolis settling in Kathmandu valley, read this.
    Interviews with Baburam Acharya by Mahesh Chandra Regmi (1973)

    Question
    Lichchhavis have settled here like other ethnic groups. Whom did they mix with?
    Answer
    Some of them are Dangols. Those settled in Dakshinakoligrama are all Dangols.
    Question
    Is not Koli a separate ethnic group?

    Answer
    No. This has not yet been determined clearly. It has not been explained so far. The name of the village is Dakshinakolograma.

    Question
    This is controversial. The central part of Kathmandu was formerly called Koligrama. A manuscript at the Machhindrabahal shrine belonging to the period of Yaksha Malla mentions Koligrama. The present Kel Tole reminds us this terem. The southern part of Koligrama, Dakshinakoligrama developed further. The names Koligrama and Dakshinakoligrama seem to have come into being because Kolis settled in this area in large numbers. Kolis, maternal relatives of the Buddha, were then as famous as the Shakyas.


    Answer
    No. This is very far-fetched.
    Question
    Was not the settlement of the Vrijikas called as Brijikarathya?
    Answer
    No. Brijikas are Lichchhavis.
    Question
    Lichchhavis were included in the Vriji confederation (Sangha). But Vrijikas and Lichchhavis are different. Similarly, Shakyas too came here.
    Answer
    No. There was no way for Shakyas to come here. Where did they come from?
    Question
    Who are the Shakyas referred to in the inscription of Tebahal.2?
    __________________________________
    2 An inscription recently discovered in Chabahil refers to Bhikshu Bandhubhadra Shakya. The Buddhist text Mulasarvastivadavinaya has also referred to the entry of Shakyas into Nepal. Inscriptions to the Malla period contain many references to Shakyas.

    Answer
    They were called Shakyas onl later, when the Shakya monastery was built. The monastery built by Shantirakshita in Tibet is the Shakya monastery. Those initiated is such monasteries were called Shakyas. There is a difference between these Shakyas and the present Shakyas.

    Question
    If Lichchhavis could come here from outside, they could not Shakyas?
    Answer
    No. Lichchhavis had come here to occupy the throne, whereas Shakyas did not come for this purpose. Shakya monastery. Gautam Buddha was a Shakya of that place. We cannot believe that he came to Nepal. Even the descendants of Koshanu, who came here much later, had to face difficulties. No route had been opened up. How could then anyone come here?

    Question
    They could have come from Butaul through India.
    Answer
    Had Shakyas come here, they would have brought their civilization with them and their inscriptions would have been discovered. Ashoka too would have come here and installed inscriptions here.

    Question
    The Buddhist text Mulasarvastivadavinaya mentions that Shakyas came and settled here. It also states that Ananda had come here to meet the Shakyas.

    Answer
    When was this text written?
    Question
    It was written during the period of Harshavardhana.

    Answer
    Only contemporary writings can be taken as evidence. These are only legends. We should not believs in legends.

    Question
    Kolis also seem to have come here. The existence of Koligrama and Dakshinakoligrama proves the existence of Koli settlements.

    Answer
    There were only small villages in the beginning and houses were isolated. ''Toles'' came into being when house were built adjoining each other. The area beyond Dakshinakoligrama was called ''Uttar Tola''. But these was no settlement beyond Jhouchhe Tole.

    Question
    If so, how was the inscription of Manadeva discovered in Kol Tole? This inscription refers to a water spout built for the public.

    Answer
    This was constructed outside of town. A Buddhist monastery had been constructed in Yambu. The water spout seems to have been contructed for this monastery.
    Last edited by Kaazi; 07-21-2021 at 03:58 PM.

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  6. #254
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    Quote Originally Posted by BMG View Post
    That is because Tamil movies have a huge following in Kerala.So many people will be already acquainted with Tamil after watching many movies. You will rarely see a Tamil speaking Malayalam. For the uninitiated they will not understand anything. At the most they may recognize few words here and there but won't be able to make head or tail of the conversation.
    From the Wiki page for Malayalam:

    The western dialect of Old Tamil spoken in the southwestern Malabar Coast of India was known as Malanaattu Tamil/Malabar Tamil (Meaning the Tamil of the hilly region/the Tamil of Malabar) since the ancient Sangam period (300 BCE - 300 CE).[24] Due to the geographical separation of the Malabar Coast from Tamil Nadu, and the presence of Western Ghats mountain ranges in between these two geographical regions, the dialect of Tamil spoken in the territory of the western Malabar Coast of the ancient Chera kingdom was different from that spoken in the Tamil-mainland.[24] The generally held view is that Malayalam was the western coastal dialect of Medieval Tamil (Karintamil)[33] and separated from Middle Tamil (Proto-Tamil-Malayalam) sometime between the 9th and 13th centuries.[34][35] The renowned poets of Classical Tamil such as Paranar (1st century CE), Ilango Adigal (2nd-3rd century CE), and Kulasekhara Alvar (9th century CE) were Keralites.[24] The Sangam works can be considered as the ancient predecessor of Malayalam.[36]

  7. #255
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    Quote Originally Posted by discreetmaverick View Post
    He must be grossly overestimating what he has learnt or similarities he has found.

    Karnataka has large Telugu population in border areas and in Bangalore.
    As far as the friend is concerned, he may not have been boasting, however, as I know him, he has a discerning ear for linguistics, and his mother tongue is from the same language family.

    From The Hindu: ‘Kannada and Telugu are two faces of the same coin'

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  9. #256
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rahuls77 View Post
    As far as the friend is concerned, he may not have been boasting, however, as I know him, he has a discerning ear for linguistics, and his mother tongue is from the same language family.

    From The Hindu: ‘Kannada and Telugu are two faces of the same coin'
    Yeah. Even though Kammas or Reddy don't mix much with Vokkaliga and Lingayats, but we have lot of Medieval links between Kannad and Telugu people. The Lingayats were once spread in Andhra too and some Balijas were following them. Like wise Kannada people especially Rashtrakuta and Chalukya were known Jains and had some Buddhist links and have similar history to the Kammas before. Reddy caste was formed during Rashtrakuta resurgence into Telengana area from Karnataka similar to Vokkaliga Gowadas in the southern part during same time. During Chalukya time both Kannada and Telugu was used by many poets like Nannaya, Veera Saivas etc... So there is much more deeper connection which was lost after Cholas took over former Chalukya territories in Andhra. But again after Vijayanagara, Kamma and Balija Nayaks along with Vijayanagar nayaks were using Telugu as Court language along with Kannada which lasted few hundred years but again cut short due to Nizam and Souther Mughal establishments. But recent Telugu Kannada movie tieups seem to bring back old associations




    After Satavahanas and Ikshvakus, Pallav was probably first outside migration into area whom Chalukyas fought for long time until when Cholas took over Pallavs and Chalukyas formed Eastern Chalukya branch which later merged with Cholas. The Kannad branches became extinct soon while Telugu Kakatiyas and Cholas formed bigger kingdoms until Alaudin Khilji time. After these were lost the Kamma Nayaks successfully regrouped and that led to Vijayanagar kingdom for another few hundred years
    Last edited by tipirneni; 07-27-2021 at 02:26 AM.
    Y: H1a1a4b3b1a8 Yfull id-> YF83218
    Medals->Hidden Content
    mtDNA:U2a1a2
    G25 Ancients Dist 1.0 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2 88.4 MAR_Taforalt 2.6NPL_Mebrak 5
    VK2020_SWE_Gotland_VA 4 Hidden Content

    Lactose Persistence rs3213871 rs4988243 rs4988183 rs3769005 rs2236783
    found -> DA125, Kangju

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  11. #257
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    Badeshi: an Indo-Iranian language spoken by only 3 men from Swat. Imo, shares similarity in sentence structure and vocab with Kohistani languages.
    https://youtu.be/qtS4AIMlSZ8
    BBC visited the village 3 yrs ago.
     

    distance: 2.13
    sample: Kapisa (Kapisa)
    CG IVCp • IRN Shahr I Sokhta BA2 I8728: 42.5
    Dzharkutan1 BA • Average: 37.5
    Srubnaya Alakul MLBA • Average: 17
    Chokhopani 2700BP • Average: 3

    sample: Kapisa:Kapisa-Dad
    distance: 2.0944
    Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2 • I8728: 41.5
    Bustan_BA • Average: 37
    Srubnaya_Alakul_MLBA • Average: 19
    Chokhopani_2700BP • Average: 2.5

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