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Thread: The South Asian Institute of Regional Surname, Gotra, Clan, and Tribal Analysis.

  1. #911
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    Quote Originally Posted by J Man View Post
    Anyone here know what the origins of the surname "Ukani" from Surat in Gujarat is? Which caste or group?
    Most likely one of the many Patidar clans from Saurashtra who have settled in Surat within the past 2-3 generations or so (many are in the diamond business).

    http://www.kadvapatelvivah.com/surname.php

    May I ask why you are curious?
    No, a true seeker, one who truly wished to find, could accept no doctrine. But the man who has found what he sought, such a man could approve of every doctrine, each and every one, every path, every goal; nothing separated him any longer from all those thousands of others who lived in the eternal, who breathed the Divine.

    - Siddhartha, Hermann Hesse

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  3. #912
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirtan24 View Post
    Most likely one of the many Patidar clans from Saurashtra who have settled in Surat within the past 2-3 generations or so (many are in the diamond business).

    http://www.kadvapatelvivah.com/surname.php

    May I ask why you are curious?
    Interesting thanks...At my work place there are a number of people from Gujarat and all of them have the surname "Patel" but one. The one non-Patel has the surname "Ukani" so I was just curious. I enjoy learning about other cultures.

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    Quote Originally Posted by J Man View Post
    Interesting thanks...At my work place there are a number of people from Gujarat and all of them have the surname "Patel" but one. The one non-Patel has the surname "Ukani" so I was just curious. I enjoy learning about other cultures.
    Most Patidars, especially those in the diaspora, have done away with their clan names for the more generic and recognisable title "Patel". Your Ukani colleague seems to be one of the exceptions
    Last edited by Kirtan24; 01-05-2022 at 11:30 PM.
    No, a true seeker, one who truly wished to find, could accept no doctrine. But the man who has found what he sought, such a man could approve of every doctrine, each and every one, every path, every goal; nothing separated him any longer from all those thousands of others who lived in the eternal, who breathed the Divine.

    - Siddhartha, Hermann Hesse

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  7. #914
    I have a theory on the origins of ethnogenesis of Arain tribe of Punjab. I find them intriguing as there is not much written on them historically and they are also the biggest we wuz Arabs larpers in Punjab, the punjabi arains cluster closely with khatris, aroras, kambojas of Punjab and other SPGTs, very high caucasian and iran_n and low steppe. Demographically, I would say they dominate urban west punjab especially Lahore and Faisalabad and villages on the west / east punjab border (okara, kasur etc), in these areas they are considered equal to jatt / rajputs and dominate politically as well.

    I think the modern arrains descend from historical sindhi Meds:

    Description of Medes in Sindh
    At the time of the first Arab invasion of Sind,
    towards the end of the seventh century A.D., “the two chief tribal groupings of the country were the Jats (Zuṭṭ) and the Mīds, each with numerous, commonly intractable, subdivisions”
    (Wink 1999, I: 156), though “the original seat of the Med or Medi colony was in the Panjab
    proper” (Elliot and Dowson 1867, I: 508). Of these tribes, the Mīds8 are called differently by
    different authors, such as Med, Mayd, Mīd, Mind, Mand, etc. Friedmann and Shulman
    observe that the name is not fully clear and the Arabic manuscripts either read m-y-d or m-
    n-d (1991: 967). Wink comments that from the name of this important tribal group “only
    MD is given in the Arabic script, hence Mīd, Mayd, Mand, Mund are all possibilities” (Wink
    1999, I: 164). Minorsky called them “Mand” and contributed an article under this title for
    the Encyclopédie de l’Islam (1936: 251-52). Al-Maṣ‘ūdī, who visited India in A.D. 915-16, calls
    them Mind, a nation “who are a race of Sind”, and writes that they were at constant war
    with the people of Mansura9 (in Elliot and Dowson 1867, I: 24; 529). Similarly, Al-Iṣṭakhrī
    says that “the infidel peoples of Sind are the Budha and the Mēd. The Mēd lived on the
    banks of the Indus ..., from Multān to the sea, and occupied pasturages in the desert which
    stretched between the Indus and the city of Kāmuhul” (Friedmann and Shulman 1991: 967).
    Al-Idrīsī mentions the tribe al-Mayd as a wandering people, who seek pastures in the outer
    regions of this desert, and reports that “their grazing grounds and wanderings extend up to
    Māmuhul.10 They are a numerous people and have large crowds among them. They have
    camels and goats, and many a time in their [pursuit of] pastures they reach as far as Rōr on
    the banks of the River Mihrān. Sometimes they march further and reach the vicinity of the
    frontiers of Makrān”11 (Ahmad 1960: 44; cf. Wink 1999, I: 142; Elliot and Dowson 1867, I: 519-
    31; Friedmann and Shulman 1991: 967). Ibn Khordadbeh mentions that al-Med “lived about
    four days’ journey to the east of the Indus and were robbers” (Friedmann and Shulman
    1991: 967; cf. Ibn Khordadbeh in Elliot and Dowson 1867, I: 15; De Goeje 1889: 42). Ibn
    Ḥawqal writes (about A.D. 977) that “the infidels who inhabit Sind are called Budha and
    Mand. They reside in the tract between Túrán, Multán, and Mansúra, to the west of the
    Mihrán. They breed camels, which are sought after in Khurásán and elsewhere.... The
    Mands dwell on the banks of the Mihrán, from the boundary of Multán to the sea, and in
    the desert between Makrán and Fámhal. They have many cattle sheds and pasturages, and
    form a large population” (in Elliot and Dowson, 1867, I: 38; cf. Wink 1999, I: 164-66). Al-
    Bīrūnī records that “the Maydh people were pirates and their dwellings extended between
    Daybul, Cutch and Kathiawar” (quoted in Ahmad 1960: 145). Sometime they even extended
    their raids up to “the mouth of the Tigris and the southern part of the Red Sea and the
    coasts of Sri Lanka” (Wink 1999, I: 164). Mujmalu-t-Tawarikh, written in A.H. 520 (A.D. 1126),
    records the rivalry of the Meds with the Jats.

    The Meds actually were called Arrii

    Moreover, amongst the several tribes of Kshatriyas, who, having neglected to observe the holy customs, and to visit the Bráhmans, became so degenerate that they were expelled their caste, and regarded as "Dasyus," or robber tribes, Manu enumerates the "Pah-lavas." 5 "They are," continues the holy legislator, "Dasyus, whether they speak the language of Mlechchhas, or that of Áryas." Árya in Sanskrit, airya in Zend, means "noble," "sacred," "venerable;" hence a portion of Upper India is called Aryavarta, "the holy land," or "country of the Áryas." The Medes being also of the same original stock, were universally called Arii. (Henry Miers Elliot, 1808)

    I believe Arrains lost the Mede identity as they moved up the indus

    On Arrains
    It so appears that the Arrains moved up the Sutlej, from South Punjab near the Multan-Uch region, settled in the Ghaggar-Sirsa (in NW Haryana) region and took up farming.
    "Their ancestors from Uch came and settled about the Ghaggar at Sirsa, and until the famine of 1759, they held the whole of the Sotar or Ghaggar Valley from Bhatner upwards to near Tohana (in the Hissar district) being at that time in possesion of 117, or according to some of 360 villages."

    pg. 97, Sirsa Settlement Report, J. Wilson, 1884

    Here are different arain clan names:

    Arain Sub-Castes.

    Baga,
    03. Baguka,
    04. Bahalwan,
    05. Basroo,
    06. Bhaila,
    07. Bhalay,
    08. Bhoongay,
    09. Bhutta,
    10. Bhutto,
    11. Chandoor
    12. Chandu,
    13. Chhachhar,
    14. Chtalay
    15. Chukeral
    16. Daulay,
    17. Dhadhay,
    18. Dhako,
    19. Dhengay,
    20. Dholanwal,
    21. Gahgeer,
    22. Gatku,
    23. Gaellin,
    24. Gejial,
    25. Ghalar,
    26. Ghurki,
    27. Goheer,
    28. Hansi,,
    30. Jandialia,
    31. Jatala,
    32. Kardar,
    33. Katarbund,
    34. Kavali,
    35. Kukru,
    36. Labanay,
    37. Malgoria,,
    39. Manda
    40. Mehar,
    42. Mudh,
    43. Mulanay,
    44. Munda,
    45. Mundh,
    46. Nihal
    47. Pawadhray,
    48. Qutub Shahi,
    49. Rahi,
    50. Ramay,
    51. Ramday,
    52. Rattay,
    53. Saggi,,
    55. Samana
    56. Sapal,,
    58. Sarsa
    60. Shami,
    62. Teer Andaz,
    63. Uggee Walay
    63. Vehra,
    65. Wahnd,
    66. Wajooha,

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    Quote Originally Posted by followtherabbit89 View Post
    Yes true. Tuluva Brahmins comprise of Sthanika Brahmins, Kote Brahmins, Koteshwara Brahmins and Havyaka Brahmins. Although used among these sections one can see it being used frequently among Havyakas.
    continuing from here,

    Kota/Koteshwara are Kannada brahmins of Kundapura Taluk in Udipi -

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kundapur

    Havyaka are also Kannada brahmins of Uttara Kannada districk

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uttara_Kannada

    Stanika are temple servants similar to Ambalavasi

    Shivalli are the Tuluva brahmins who speak Tulu as their first language

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    Quote Originally Posted by vishankar View Post
    there is not much difference between a "high" and "low ' caste nair....i have samples from the veluthedath nair....washerman caste among nairs, who have similar harappa scores to other nairs,...a regional difference may be seen....northern kerala nairs are less AASI shifted than southern ones....caste based organisations took initiatives to amalgamate all nair subcastes under one umbrella.....matrimonial ads rarely specify whether one is a pallichhan nair( palanquin bearer) or athikurissi( funeral rite associated nair)!..these divisions were prominent a century ago perhaps.
    Continuing here,

    Similar to pallichhan nair in Tamil Nadu and Sri lanka

    Pallichan Nair is an intermediate Nair sub-caste,[1][2] seen predominantly in Malabar and Cochin areas. They are found in Travancore in very low numbers. They are the palanquin / pallak bearers for the ruling dynasties, at some places for the Janmi Namboothiris[3] and Nair chieftains.[4] The conventional prayer 'Pana' was performed by Pallichan Nairs.[citation needed] They were also employed as warriors, and the Pada Nairs of Kavalappara Moopil Nair constituted mainly Pallichan nairs.[citation needed] Vaniya Nairs, Pallichan Nairs, and Maniyanis, are Theyyam worshippers(The former being superior) and they have their own shrines for their Theyyams.[5]

    Pallichan and Vattakad were treated as an intermediate class of Shudras because there was neither inter-dining nor inter-marriage between the members of these subdivisions and the high caste Shudras.[6]
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pallicchan_Nair

    Siviyar (Tamil: சிவியார், lit. 'Chiviyar', also written Chiviar and Tamil: சிவிகையார், lit. 'Chivikaiyar') is a caste found in the Indian state of Tamil Nadu and Sri Lanka.[1] They were traditionally palanquin bearers. They are a single community in Sri Lanka, but are however a subcaste of the Idaiyar caste in Tamil Nadu.[2] According to Srinivasa Aiyangar “The Siviyar (palankeen bearers) and the Agattu-Charna sub-division of the Tamil Idaiyan caste are noteworthy, as affording a connecting link between them and the Samantas and Nayars of Malabar. [3]
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siviyar

    Are any of the results of pallichhan nair avaialble or who are still not much mixed with other Nairs?

    What are athikurissi (funeral rite associated nair)?

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  13. #917
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    Quote Originally Posted by discreetmaverick View Post
    Continuing here,

    Similar to pallichhan nair in Tamil Nadu and Sri lanka



    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pallicchan_Nair



    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siviyar

    Are any of the results of pallichhan nair avaialble or who are still not much mixed with other Nairs?

    What are athikurissi (funeral rite associated nair)?
    I am afraid it will be rather difficult to specifically look for the pallichan nair/ athikurissi nair as these have largely integrated into the nair mainstream.

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    Quote Originally Posted by vishankar View Post
    I am afraid it will be rather difficult to specifically look for the pallichan nair/ athikurissi nair as these have largely integrated into the nair mainstream.
    @Discreetmaverick....you can check out my latest post on g25 nmonte thread...regarding nmonte runs of nairs of "lower standing"..non military functions.

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    hi..does anybody know to which tribe people with surname malik( pakistani) belong.....is it awan?arain? jatt?....i was just surfing the net and seeing a video of former pakistani cricketer ,saleem malik..I was curious to know which community he belongs to...

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    Quote Originally Posted by vishankar View Post
    hi..does anybody know to which tribe people with surname malik( pakistani) belong.....is it awan?arain? jatt?....i was just surfing the net and seeing a video of former pakistani cricketer ,saleem malik..I was curious to know which community he belongs to...
    Malik and Choudhary are usually titles used by land holding communities in Punjab even non-muslims use or used this title. In terms of the cricketer, he is from Lahore so hard to tell what specific baradari he belongs to.
     

    Sample Fit Wezmeh N • Average Yamnaya RUS Samara • Average Simulated AASI by DMXX • Average IRL Megalithic • Average Tyumen HG • Average Chokhopani 2700BP • Average
    Kapisa-Mom (Kapisa) 3.23 46.5 19 18 8.5 5.5 2.5
    Kapisa (Kapisa) 2.70 46.5 17 17.5 8.5 7 3.5
    Kapisa-Dad (Kapisa) 3.35 46 21 15.5 8.5 4.5 4.5


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