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Thread: The South Asian Institute of Regional Surname, Gotra, Clan, and Tribal Analysis.

  1. #591
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    Quote Originally Posted by BMG View Post
    The joint family house is called Tharavad. It is not just used by Nairs but also by others including Ezhavas,Muslims and Christians.
    Generally they are not used as surname but sometimes it may be used before the given name like in Erambala Krishnan Nayanar ( Former CM of Kerala) or Kocheril Raman Narayanan(Former President).
    Yes..it is the joint family house...nowadays all castes and communities talk of a common tharawad( from which each one sprung)...seems the guthu mane is similar!..probably familes which have a common maternal ancestor ,keep that tharawad name.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BMG View Post
    Adiyodis are considered samanthan Nair. They are the royals of Kolatiri domain ,the Descendants of Mushika Dynasty. The Royals of Nediyirrupu Swaroopam or Kozhikode are called Eradi(Ernad).Their head is the Samutiri. Similarly Valluvanad Royals are called Vallodi andNedunganad Royals are Nedungadi. They all are considered Samanthan Nairs.
    who are Samantha Ksythriyas?

  3. #593
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    Quote Originally Posted by discreetmaverick View Post
    who are Samantha Ksythriyas?
    Unlike Northern Royals the Southern Royals considered distinct from the Nair community and consider themselves Kshatriya and above the Nairs in ritual hierarchy. At present the royal descendants of erstwhile Cochin and Travancore kingdom are considered Samantha Kshatriya. The Cochin Royals did have marital alliances with Samanthan Nairs but Travancore royals did not. The only people these people married other than royal families are namboodiri Brahmins.
     

    My ancestral ydna haplogroups

    My Y-Line - R1a-Z93+L657+ Y7+
    Maternal Grandfather's Y-Line - L1a2-M357
    Paternal GM's family Y-Line - C1b-P92+ K96+
    Maternal GM's family Y-Line - J2a1-L26(M47- M67- M68- L24-)

    Ydna haplogroups of my ftdna family finder matches

    Second-Fourth Cousins
    R1a-Z93+ Y40+
    R1a-M17(not further tested)
    R2a-M124+ L295-(2)
    Q1a-L56+ Y2659+ Z5902+

    Third-Fifth Cousins
    R1a-M17(3)(Not further tested)
    J2b2-M241
    L1a1-M27+
    F-M89(possibly H3?)

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  5. #594
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    Quote Originally Posted by BMG View Post
    Unlike Northern Royals the Southern Royals considered distinct from the Nair community and consider themselves Kshatriya and above the Nairs in ritual hierarchy. At present the royal descendants of erstwhile Cochin and Travancore kingdom are considered Samantha Kshatriya. The Cochin Royals did have marital alliances with Samanthan Nairs but Travancore royals did not. The only people these people married other than royal families are namboodiri Brahmins.
    so true...i remember my mom saying there were alliances between her family and the paliath achans( part of the cochin royalty)!....actually the majority of kerala kshatriyas are derived from nairs-

    "Anthropologist Christopher Fuller, suggests such claims are vanity and that "most unbiased observers ... have concluded that the Kshatriya and Samanthan subdivisions should be treated merely as supereminent Nayar subdivisions". The notable exception to that scholarly consensus is the sociologist Louis Dumont"

    It would be interesting to know what Dumont has to say!

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  7. #595
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    Quote Originally Posted by BMG View Post
    Unlike Northern Royals the Southern Royals considered distinct from the Nair community and consider themselves Kshatriya and above the Nairs in ritual hierarchy. At present the royal descendants of erstwhile Cochin and Travancore kingdom are considered Samantha Kshatriya. The Cochin Royals did have marital alliances with Samanthan Nairs but Travancore royals did not. The only people these people married other than royal families are namboodiri Brahmins.
    It seems there is some parallel between Samatha nairs and Samantha kyshtriyas and Ballals of Bunts

    Thurston mentions that the origin of the title Ballal is explained by a proverb which goes when a Bunt becomes powerful he becomes a Ballal and that it reflects a claim of descent from the Hoysala Ballal kings.[3] The Hoysalas had matrimonial relations with the Alupa royal family of coastal Karnataka. In the Book Prachina Tulunadu (Ancient Tulu nadu), The writers N.S. Kille and N.A Sheenappa Heggade state that following the decline of Alupas, the coastal region of Karnataka came under the sway of powerful local Bunt-Jain feudal families who established feudatory states or chiefdoms. These Feudal lords and petty kings were generally referred to as Bunt Ballals and later owed allegiance to the Vijayanagara Empire.[4] Due to Brahmanization some small kings in the southern regions of erstwhile South Canara and North Kerala sought to establish their high prestige and separate royal identity from the castes of their origin. The Samantha and Varma Ballal kings were therefore descendants of the Bunt-Nadava caste.[5]
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballal
    Last edited by discreetmaverick; 09-28-2020 at 05:19 AM.

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  9. #596
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    Quote Originally Posted by discreetmaverick View Post
    It seems there is some parallel between Samatha nairs and Samantha kyshtriyas and Ballals of Bunts



    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballal
    What about Ajila and Alva?
     

    My ancestral ydna haplogroups

    My Y-Line - R1a-Z93+L657+ Y7+
    Maternal Grandfather's Y-Line - L1a2-M357
    Paternal GM's family Y-Line - C1b-P92+ K96+
    Maternal GM's family Y-Line - J2a1-L26(M47- M67- M68- L24-)

    Ydna haplogroups of my ftdna family finder matches

    Second-Fourth Cousins
    R1a-Z93+ Y40+
    R1a-M17(not further tested)
    R2a-M124+ L295-(2)
    Q1a-L56+ Y2659+ Z5902+

    Third-Fifth Cousins
    R1a-M17(3)(Not further tested)
    J2b2-M241
    L1a1-M27+
    F-M89(possibly H3?)

  10. #597
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    Quote Originally Posted by discreetmaverick View Post
    It seems there is some parallel between Samatha nairs and Samantha kyshtriyas and Ballals of Bunts



    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballal
    yes...it appears to be....nairs and bunts, while being traditional warriors dont claim Dvija( twice born status), but the Samantha Kshatriyas and Ballals do!....i have a colleague who is a Ballal, they claim Kshatriya status, they are seen in the tulus speaking areas of northern Kasargod, Puttur and Sullia.
    Do some Brahmins also have the Ballal surname?

  11. #598
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    Quote Originally Posted by vishankar View Post
    yes...it appears to be....nairs and bunts, while being traditional warriors dont claim Dvija( twice born status), but the Samantha Kshatriyas and Ballals do!....i have a colleague who is a Ballal, they claim Kshatriya status, they are seen in the tulus speaking areas of northern Kasargod, Puttur and Sullia.
    Do some Brahmins also have the Ballal surname?
    It seems there is , based on author it was granted by Bunt ballals to priests by those who went to Vanaprastha

    https://www.exoticindiaart.com/book/...annada-NAR961/

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vanaprastha

    Do you know if Ajila, Alva, and Chowta also claim dwija like Ballals?

    Ajila

    Ajila is a common surname of the Bunt people,[1] the landed gentry of Tulu Nadu region in the south west of India. It is also the name of the Jain Bunt Dynasty who ruled the principality of Venur for several centuries(1154 to 1786 C.E).[2][3] The most notable of the Ajila kings was Veera Timmannarasa Ajila IV who erected the monolith of Bahubali in 1604 C.E.The descendants of the Ajila rulers still survive and inhabit the Aladangady Aramane (Ajila Palace).
    Alva

    Alva occurs among the Bunt people of Karnataka, India. It is an alternate form of a dynastic title of the Alupa royal family.[2][3]
    Chowta

    who ruled certain parts of the Tulu Nadu region for several centuries (12th- 18th).Descendants of the chowta rulers still survive and inhabit the Chowtara Aramane (Chowta Palace) of Moodabidri, which is known for its ornate carvings such as the Nava Nari Kunjara (Nine Damsel Elephant).[3]
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ajila

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chowta

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alva_(surname)

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    @ BMG @ Vishankar: Do any of you know what is the etymology of Ezhava - Ilhava, Irava, Izhava and Erava in the south of the region; as Chovas, Chokons and Chogons in Central Travancore; and as Thiyyar, Tiyyas and Theeyas in the Malabar region.[3][4][5]

    Wiki doesn't have it in the community page

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ezhava

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  14. #600
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    Quote Originally Posted by discreetmaverick View Post
    @ BMG @ Vishankar: Do any of you know what is the etymology of Ezhava - Ilhava, Irava, Izhava and Erava in the south of the region; as Chovas, Chokons and Chogons in Central Travancore; and as Thiyyar, Tiyyas and Theeyas in the Malabar region.[3][4][5]

    Wiki doesn't have it in the community page

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ezhava
    will let u know...)))

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