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Thread: The South Asian Institute of Regional Surname, Gotra, Clan, and Tribal Analysis.

  1. #581
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    Quote Originally Posted by vishankar View Post
    the foreign brahmins, are chiefly the tamil brahmins and tulu speaking embranthiris and also the Gaud Saraswat Brahmins who are a significant minority in Kerala, with a specialised Cochin GSB in south kerala!
    Quote Originally Posted by BMG View Post
    Yes. Foreign Brahmins are more in Kerala than namboothiris.
    Quote Originally Posted by vishankar View Post
    yes, there are more brahmins from other states in Kerala, than native nambudiris.....even among the nambudiri, there are factions which are not given the full status....the payyanur nambudiri historically used to follow matriarchy, so they were considered separate....
    you can guys correct meant on this

    payaswani river is considered as the traditional boundary between the Tulu Nadu and Malayalam regions of Kerala from the fourteenth century AD onwards; before that it was north of Kumbala.
    embranthiris are concentrated in North Kasargod( above payaswani river?), which is technically Tulunadu or spread across the state from medival times

    Wiki doesn't cover that about Embranthiri distribution in Kerala

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embranthiri

    then I believe Kerala iyers are the single largest brahmin caste of Kerala?

    It is interesting some namboodiri were following the matrilineal system, can't find the exact period of beginning of this tradition
    Namboothri families of Payyannur Graamam had followed the "Marumakkathaayam" or matriarchal system.The area where these families lived was ruled by the Kolathiri Rajas.
    https://www.namboothiri.com/articles/matriarchy.htm

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kolathiri

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mushika_dynasty

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kolathiri

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  3. #582
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    Quote Originally Posted by discreetmaverick View Post
    Are Samatha nairs and Samantha Kshatriya same?
    no.. they are not,in fact i am surprised such a division existed..i always thought there were only samantha kshatriyas..need to refer further.

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    Quote Originally Posted by discreetmaverick View Post
    you can guys correct meant on this



    embranthiris are concentrated in North Kasargod( above payaswani river?), which is technically Tulunadu or spread across the state from medival times

    Wiki doesn't cover that about Embranthiri distribution in Kerala

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embranthiri

    then I believe Kerala iyers are the single largest brahmin caste of Kerala?

    It is interesting some namboodiri were following the matrilineal system, can't find the exact period of beginning of this tradition


    https://www.namboothiri.com/articles/matriarchy.htm

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kolathiri

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mushika_dynasty

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kolathiri
    just see this link.....https://www.facebook.com/notes/tulu-...7140183632355/
    there are many embranthris and pottis( a common surname among them), in central and south kerala too....but the centre of emigration must be tulu nadu...

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  6. #584
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    Nadalvars are Villavar aristocracy derived from the Various Villavar subcastes called Villavar, Vanavar, Malayar and its sea going cousins called Meenavar.
    Nadazhwar, Nadavaru, Nadava (Tulu Pandyan Alupas Kingdom) Nattavar Natover (Portuguese Dona Beatriz Natover) Nadar(Pandyan Kingdom) Alwar, Alva (Karnataka) are its variants.

    Villavar Villuperadi(kings), Villavarayar
    Vanavar Vanathi Rayar, Vanar

    Enadhi (Army General) Enadhi Rayar

    Chanar(Administrators, Chieftains, Tax Collectors), Sanar, Channar, Santor, Santara (Karnataka Bana kings) Sana Kshatriya (Andhra Bengal)

    Panicker (Military trainers) Panicka Nadars Nadappanicker, Pannikkan (All Panickers are not of Villavar descent) Vallikada Panicker (who were Generals of Portuguese and Dutch armies)
    Karukku Pattayathar (Broad Sworded suicidal army) Kodimarathar who defended the Pandyan flag, Sivanthi (Elite suicidal army) Nattathi
    All the above are few of the Villavar titles.
    Tamil Villavar formed the three Tamil Kingdoms called Chera Chola and Pandyan Kingdoms. Sembian (Good arrowed) Vanavan Cholan, Mara Meenva Pandyan, Villavar Cheran all belong to the four subgroups of Villavars ie Villavar Vanavar, Malayar and Meenavar.

    The Northern cousins of Villavars were Banas(Sanskritised form of Villavar). Bana Kingdoms were throughout India in the ancient times. Alulpas Pandyan Kingdom of Tulunadu was ruled by Nadavas and Kulasekharas of the Bana people.
    Kadambas of Banavasi were also ruled by Banas before it was occupied by Mayurasarma an North Indian Brahmin. Bana relasted Santara kings ruled over Banavasi and Shimoga in the middle ages.
    Andhra Bana kingdom had its capital at Sannamur. Banas also ruled from Kolar and Perumbanappadi.

    While the Banas used the title Mahabali the ancient Villavar-Bana ruler from Eranial (Hiranya Simha Nallur) the Villavars used the title Maveli Vanathi Rayar.
    Pandya kingdom mentioned in the Mahabharatha mentions Sarangha Dwajan (Bow flagged King) as its ruler, indicating Pandya kingdom used Bow and arrow as the insignia.
    Pandyas also used Hill in their flags. Malaya Dwaja Pandyan (Hill flagged King) was the contemporary of Arjuna.

    Thus the Pandyas used Bow and Arrow, Hill and Fish insignia in their flags all are the insignia of subgroups of Villavar people ie Villavar Malayar and Meenavar.

    The enemies of the Villavar-Bana rulers were Aryans and Nagas who were confined to the Gangetic planes in ancient times.
    The language of Aryans and Nagas was Devanagari ( Prakrit ancient Hindi).
    The southward migrations of Nagas and Aryans led to the war between the Villavars and Nagas.
    Kalithokai mentions a fierce war fought between Villavar-Meenavar against the Nagas in which the Villavar lost Central India to the Nagas.
    In the latter period various Naga tribes started migrating towards the Villavar Kingdoms.
    Various Naga tribes which migrated to south India were Maravar Eyinar Aruvalar Parathavar and Oviar. The ancient Pandyan kings fought with them and subjugated them.
    Around 275 AD more of the Northern migrants from Kalachuri Kingdom started coming towards Tamil Kingdoms. Kalabhra (Kalwar Kalappalar (Vellala) subjugated the Chera Chola and Pandyan Kingdoms. Kalabhras were followed by Pallava Kalabhartars with their Jungle dweller army and Ganga(Gowda is a variant of Ganga). Kalabhra, Pallava Kalabhartars and Ganga all of North Indian Naga roots succeeded in subjugating the Villavar kingdoms and ending the third Tamil Sangham at 300 ad. Kalabhra might be related to Kalachuri whose titles were Kalwar Kalar and Jaisval.
    Pallava started promoting Sanskrit and Prakrit. The Pallava Kalabhartars who initially ruled from Andhrapradesh. Pallava descent from the Brahmin sage Aswathama son of Dronacharya. Virakurcha son of Aswathama who belonged to the Bradwaja Gotra of Brahmins and a Naga princess founded the Pallava dynasty. The Pallava orders were always given in Sanskrit and Prakrit (ancient Hindi) and never in Telugu Kannada or Tamil.


    The Various invaders who invaded Villavar Kingdoms (Chera, Chola Pandyan Kingdoms) were
    1) Nagas (Marava, Eyinar, Oviar, Oliar Aruvalar and Parathavar). Pandyan and Chola Kings fought with each of the Naga tribes, defeated and made them soldiers.
    2) Kalabhras (Mutharaiyar, Kalvar, Kalappalar) 250 AD Kalabhras are the southern counterparts of North Indian Kalwar community. Kalwars are from Chedi Kingdom (Bundelkhand Uttarpradesh-Madyapradesh area). Kalwars established Kalachuri kingdom at Orissa and later invaded southern India as Kalabhras who sunk Tamilakam into dark ages. Kalabhras mixture with earlier Naga invaders would form a new group called Kalanagar.

    3) Pallava Kalabharthar (Vanniar Kadavar) 275 AD Kala= Naga Bhartar = Aryan. Pallava kings who descend from Aswathama son of Drona who established an Aryan Naga kingdom called Kalabharthi kingdom in Andhrapradesh. Laterdays they invaded Thondai Mandalam and established the Pallava kingdom with the help of their Naga army. The official language was Prakrit and later Sanskrit.
    4) Ganga (Gowda, Gounder) 300 AD The Pastoral people who migrated from Gangetic belt and established Ganga kingdoms in Karnataka and later Western Ganga kingdom in Orissa.
    5) Bunt Nair Naga army brought from Ahichatra Nepal 345 AD. Kadamaba King Mayuravarma brought Nepalese slave warriors from Ahichatram in the Nepal-Uttarkhand border(Rampur).These were called Buntaru (Nairs and Bunts) in Karnataka.
    5) Tulu Alupas Bana Pandya invader Kulasekhara (Nair army led by Padamala Nair) 1102 AD
    4) Delhi Sulthanate under Malik Kafur 1310 AD made various Tulu Bunt subgroups Samantha Nayara Menava and Kuruba and Ahichatram Brahmins Nambudiris rulers of Kerala. Matriarchala Tulu-Nepalese kingdoms were established after 1310 in Kerala.
    5) Vijayanagara Naicker 1377 AD invaded Madurai in the ruse of saving Pandyan dynasty. 1377 to 1526 puppet Pandyan rulers were installed. After 1526 Balija Naicker kingdoms were establised at Pandya and Chola kingdoms.
    6) Portuguese 1498 AD sided Tulu Samantha Nairs against Tamil Chera Villavar dynasty (Nadar Panicker shanar). Portuguese mixture with medival Tamils create Cochin Mestizo Parangi Mappilla community. Portuguese supported the Matriarcahl Samantha rulers with this Mestizo army. Vallikada Panickers convert join the Portuguese and led the Portuguese and Dutch armies.
    7) Dutch 1660 AD who established Protestant Christianity in which Villavar Panickers were absorbed further weakening Villavar in Kerala. Maranadu and Kumbanadu Panickers join the Protestant fold.
    8) British 1760 AD sided with the Samantha rulers in Kerala and Arcot Nawab in Tamil Nadu. British like their European prdecessors protected the Samantha Nair kingdoms, ie Cochin and Travancore. Villavars were further suppressed in the British era starting from 1750 to 1947 in Kerala.

    from http://nadarconnect.blogspot.com/2014/09/blog-post.html



    Now looking at H-Z5890 it is present in South among Pallava-Kalabhras (among early Kammas), Nadars, Nadavas Tulus like Billava, cline of Warriors from Pandya/Chola to Sri Lanka called Karava, Panicka nadars possibly became Kanayas, Possibly among early dynasties in Kerala & Tulunadu etc..., possibly among Bharadwaj gotra warriors of Pallava-Kalabhras
    Y: H-M69 -> H-M82 -> SK1225 -> H-Z5888 -> H-Z5890 -> H-CTS8144 [CTS8144/PF1741/M5498] -> Z34531 (H1a1a4b3b1a8~)
    found 2875 BCE -> Jiroft/IVC Periphery 11459 Shahr-i-Sokte BA2
    mtDNA:U2a1a

    G25 Ancients Dist 0.79 IND_Roopkund_A 51.05 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2 46.64 MAR_Iberomaurusian2.04PAK_Katelai_IA0.19 TKM_Gonur2_BA 0.08

    Lactose Persistence rs3213871 rs4988243 rs4988183 rs3769005 rs2236783
    found -> DA125, Kangju

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    The H-Z5890 present among Kshatriya of Chandela is probably the Kalabhra like from Chedi Kingdom (Bundelkhand Uttarpradesh-Madyapradesh area). The early Chedis were Yadava tribe but later some ruled who claimed Puru tribe. Some of these Chedi kings are known to employ Kamboja horses in Mahabharata (Dhrishtaketu). This shows very early relationship with Kambojas by some of the Yadu/Puru tribes. Once these groups took over few Southern Kingdoms during Kalabhra invasion https://www.livehistoryindia.com/his...8/23/kalabhras there was formation of new groups due to mixing with new tribes such as Nagas and Velamas. early Kammas probably formed in that way since the Kammanadu by river Krishna was mentioned in Telugu Ikshvaku and early Pallava kings inscriptions during 3rd Century and there were presence of Naga and Velamas in there.


    There are also many samples from Uttarpradesh which are pretty close but don't have the exact branch information.
    Last edited by tipirneni; 09-14-2020 at 09:10 PM.
    Y: H-M69 -> H-M82 -> SK1225 -> H-Z5888 -> H-Z5890 -> H-CTS8144 [CTS8144/PF1741/M5498] -> Z34531 (H1a1a4b3b1a8~)
    found 2875 BCE -> Jiroft/IVC Periphery 11459 Shahr-i-Sokte BA2
    mtDNA:U2a1a

    G25 Ancients Dist 0.79 IND_Roopkund_A 51.05 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2 46.64 MAR_Iberomaurusian2.04PAK_Katelai_IA0.19 TKM_Gonur2_BA 0.08

    Lactose Persistence rs3213871 rs4988243 rs4988183 rs3769005 rs2236783
    found -> DA125, Kangju

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    Quote Originally Posted by BMG View Post
    The north and central Kerala royals identify themselves as Nairs and have mixed with them but the south Kerala royals have kept seperate identity and have marital alliances with fellow royals and Brahmins but not with Nairs.
    Quote Originally Posted by vishankar View Post
    but groups like the adiyodi,and some nambiars do not call themselves nairs, instead style themselves as Samantha Kshatriya!
    As for the Poduval of Payyanur, they are ambalavasis in the caste hierarchy, but the last generation has mixed entensively with nairs, this is in contrast to the
    who are adiyodi ? google search doesn't yield any results. expect some politician by that surname

    Edit:

    Does North, central and south royals are as mentioned in the blogpost as Royal Subcastes?


    The 1891 Census of India, undertaken by the British listed a total of 138 Nair subcastes in the Malabar region, 44 in the Travancore region and a total of 55 of them in the Cochin region.

    The caste hierarchy within the 20 major divisions among the Nairs is as following (From the highest ranked subcaste to the lowest ranked one)

    Royal Subcastes
    (1) Koil Thampuran or Perumal (Rajah, Thampan.etc) - Samanta Kshatriya
    (2) Samanthan Nair (Thampi, Thampurans, Thirumulpad, Adiyodi, Nedungadi.etc) - Malayala Kshatriya

    Other Kshatriya Subcastes
    (3) Kiryathil Nair (Nambiar, Kaimal, Kartha, Kurup.etc) - Malayala Kshatriya
    (4) Illathu Nair (Thirumukom, Pillai.etc) - Malayala Kshatriya
    (5) Swaroopathil Nair, Menokki & Charna Nair (Menon, Menoky.etc) - Malayala Kshatriya
    (6) Padamangalam Nair - Malayala Kshatriya
    (7) Tamil Padam Nair - Malayala Kshatriya

    Non-Kshatriya Subcastes
    (8) Itasseri Nair - Malayala Kshatriya / Malayala Sudra
    (9) Maaran - Ambalavasi Brahmin
    (10) Chempukotti Nair - Malayala Sudra
    (11) Otattu Nair - Malayala Sudra
    (12) Pallicchan - Malayala Sudra
    (13) Puliyath Nair & Matavan Nair - Malayala Sudra
    (14) Kalamkotti Nair & Anduran Nair - Malayala Sudra
    (15) Chakkala Nair & Vattakkatan Nair - Malayala Sudra
    (16) Asthikkuracchi Nair & Chitikan Nair - Malayala Sudra
    (17) Chetty Nair - Arya Vysya
    (18) Chaliyan Nair - Malayala Sudra
    (19) Veluthedathu Nair (OBC)- Malayala Sudra
    (20) Vilakkithala Nair (OBC)- Malayala Sudra
    https://sivalal.blogspot.com/2010/05...in-kerala.html
    Last edited by discreetmaverick; 09-17-2020 at 03:37 AM.

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  10. #587
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    Quote Originally Posted by discreetmaverick View Post
    who are adiyodi ? google search doesn't yield any results. expect some politician by that surname

    Edit:

    Does North, central and south royals are as mentioned in the blogpost as Royal Subcastes?




    https://sivalal.blogspot.com/2010/05...in-kerala.html
    many adiyodis presumably dont use that title....they just keep their names to Govindan, Krishnan , etc..may be with the clan name / tharawad name attached!

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