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Thread: The South Asian Institute of Regional Surname, Gotra, Clan, and Tribal Analysis.

  1. #1071
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    Quote Originally Posted by surasena View Post
    Malhotra & Anand are Khatris

    Varma sample is probably that Punjabi Hindu Rajput from Sialkot.
    Rathor is also a Hindu/Sikh Rajput surname. Is it used in West Punjab/Dogra regions? I know Rathores exist in East Punjab
    I've never met or heard of Varma Rajputs in Panjab. Varma is exclusively suniyar.

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  3. #1072
    Quote Originally Posted by MonkeyDLuffy View Post
    I've never met or heard of Varma Rajputs in Panjab. Varma is exclusively suniyar.
    https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....l=1#post862205
    https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....l=1#post862213

    He identifies as a Punjabi Rajput rather. But since Suniyars have that Tank Kshatriya claim and the title is 'Varma', they indeed are more likely Punjabi Suniyar. Similar to Brahmins/Rajputs of the region so maybe there is some truth to it.
    Sialkot had 11,515 Hindu Rajputs in 1901, and 7,370 Hindu Sunars.

  4. #1073
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mahalat View Post
    What’s a Gurjjar Vansh Rajput?
    The first copper plate inscription with Gurjar vansh (गुर्जर नृपति वंश) mentioned is that of Dadda from Nandipur, Broach. They are considered related to the later Padihar Rajputs.

    As to the Chauhans - their first inscription is also from the Gurjjar region.

    Later it appears that one section of the Chauhans moved east from Yoginipur (part of modern Delhi, near the Yamuna) after their defeat by the Ghur/Soor [referred to as Yavan यवनेशमहान्तिके who occupied the banks of the Yamuna यमुनातीर]. This group is also being referred to as of the गुर्जर वंश origin (संभवः).
    योगिनीपुरमध्ये च यमुनायाश सनिधी ।
    नीलकंठीडिजवरी गुर्जरवंशसंभवः । ...
    एकदा यमुनातीर यवनेशमहान्तिके ।

    It appears possible to me that this branch was related to Gobind Rai [considered to be a brother of Pithora Rai of Ajmer]. The whole region was in a flux at that time, so we hardly get any clear account.
    The Ghurid version from Tabakat-i-Nasiri by Minhaj-i-Siraj circa 1250 AD:
    https://books.google.com/books?id=icgNAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA295
    "Ráí Kolah Pithaurá came up against the fort, and the Sultán returned and faced him at Naráin.3 All the Ráís of Hindustan were with the Ráí Kolah. The battle was formed and the Sultán, seizing a lance, made a rush upon the elephant which carried Gobind Ráí of Dehli. The latter advanced to meet him in front of the battle, and then the Sultán, who was a second Rustam, and the Lion of the Age, drove his lance into the mouth of the Rái and knocked two of the accursed wretch's teeth down his throat. The Ráí, on the other hand, returned the blow and inflicted a severe wound on the arm of his adversary. The Sultán reined back his horse and turned aside, and the pain of the wound was so insufferable that he could not support himself on horseback. The Musulman army gave way and could not be controlled. The Sultán was just falling when a sharp and brave young Khilji recognized him, jumped upon the horse behind him, and clasping him round the bosom, spurred on the horse and bore him from the midst of the fight ...

    Next year the Sultán assembled another army, and advanced to Hindustán to avenge his defeat ...

    Pithaurá alighted from his elephant, mounted a horse, and galloped off, but he was captured near Sarsutí, and sent to hell. Gobind Ráí, of Dehli, was killed in the battle, and the Sultán recognized his head by the two teeth which he had broken. The capital, Ajmír, and all the Siwálik hills, Hánsí, Sarsuti, and other districts were the results of this victory, which was gained in the year 588 4. (1192 A.D.) ...

    In the following year he captured the fort of Kol. The Sultán came back from Ghazní in the year 590 (1193 A.D.), by way of Benares and Kanauj, defeated Ráí Jai Chandar, in the neighbourhood of Chandawah, and captured over 300 elephants in the battle."

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  6. #1074
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    Quote Originally Posted by parasar View Post
    The first copper plate inscription with Gurjar vansh (गुर्जर नृपति वंश) mentioned is that of Dadda from Nandipur, Broach. They are considered related to the later Padihar Rajputs.

    As to the Chauhans - their first inscription is also from the Gurjjar region.

    Later it appears that one section of the Chauhans moved east from Yoginipur (part of modern Delhi, near the Yamuna) after their defeat by the Ghur/Soor [referred to as Yavan यवनेशमहान्तिके who occupied the banks of the Yamuna यमुनातीर]. This group is also being referred to as of the गुर्जर वंश origin (संभवः).
    योगिनीपुरमध्ये च यमुनायाश सनिधी ।
    नीलकंठीडिजवरी गुर्जरवंशसंभवः । ...
    एकदा यमुनातीर यवनेशमहान्तिके ।

    It appears possible to me that this branch was related to Gobind Rai [considered to be a brother of Pithora Rai of Ajmer]. The whole region was in a flux at that time, so we hardly get any clear account.
    The Ghurid version from Tabakat-i-Nasiri by Minhaj-i-Siraj circa 1250 AD:
    https://books.google.com/books?id=icgNAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA295
    "Ráí Kolah Pithaurá came up against the fort, and the Sultán returned and faced him at Naráin.3 All the Ráís of Hindustan were with the Ráí Kolah. The battle was formed and the Sultán, seizing a lance, made a rush upon the elephant which carried Gobind Ráí of Dehli. The latter advanced to meet him in front of the battle, and then the Sultán, who was a second Rustam, and the Lion of the Age, drove his lance into the mouth of the Rái and knocked two of the accursed wretch's teeth down his throat. The Ráí, on the other hand, returned the blow and inflicted a severe wound on the arm of his adversary. The Sultán reined back his horse and turned aside, and the pain of the wound was so insufferable that he could not support himself on horseback. The Musulman army gave way and could not be controlled. The Sultán was just falling when a sharp and brave young Khilji recognized him, jumped upon the horse behind him, and clasping him round the bosom, spurred on the horse and bore him from the midst of the fight ...

    Next year the Sultán assembled another army, and advanced to Hindustán to avenge his defeat ...

    Pithaurá alighted from his elephant, mounted a horse, and galloped off, but he was captured near Sarsutí, and sent to hell. Gobind Ráí, of Dehli, was killed in the battle, and the Sultán recognized his head by the two teeth which he had broken. The capital, Ajmír, and all the Siwálik hills, Hánsí, Sarsuti, and other districts were the results of this victory, which was gained in the year 588 4. (1192 A.D.) ...

    In the following year he captured the fort of Kol. The Sultán came back from Ghazní in the year 590 (1193 A.D.), by way of Benares and Kanauj, defeated Ráí Jai Chandar, in the neighbourhood of Chandawah, and captured over 300 elephants in the battle."
    Ahh I see, looks like the term is linked with the Gurjara/Gurjaradesa region. Thank you for clarifying.

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  8. #1075
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    Quote Originally Posted by aac99 View Post
    I did a quick upload of my dad's raw data from myHeritage on https://cladefinder.yseq.net/ and it gave me a further downstream subclade: H-Z4361
    kamil154 , a Pakistani forum member, is also a Chohan and belongs to the same clade. Maybe you guys are related.

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  10. #1076
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    Quote Originally Posted by thejkhan View Post
    kamil154 , a Pakistani forum member, is also a Chohan and belongs to the same clade. Maybe you guys are related.
    Oh interesting!

  11. #1077
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    Quote Originally Posted by thejkhan View Post
    kamil154 , a Pakistani forum member, is also a Chohan and belongs to the same clade. Maybe you guys are related.
    The Kalash Y-H also belong to downstream clades of Z4361 on the Z5873 branch.
    https://www.yfull.com/tree/H-Z4361/

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  13. #1078
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    Quote Originally Posted by MonkeyDLuffy View Post
    I've never met or heard of Varma Rajputs in Panjab. Varma is exclusively suniyar.
    Isn't Verma also used by Khatris? I think the great Hindi author Nirmal Verma was a Khatri but I could be mistaken.
    Into my heart an air that kills,
    From yon far country blows:
    What are those blue remembered hills,
    What spires, what farms are those?

    That is the land of lost content,
    I see it shining plain,
    The happy highways where I went
    And cannot come again...

  14. #1079
    Quote Originally Posted by BlackHawk View Post
    Badami Chalukyas patronised Kannada literature and were speakers of Kannada language. I don't think North India has any group speaking Kannada language or carrying some Kannada loanwords in their adopted dialect.
    Language are easily changed. Babur weote Baburnama in Turkic language but all of his descendants adopted persian. Moreover, Indo-Aryan languages do have dravidian words.

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  16. #1080
    Quote Originally Posted by BlackHawk View Post
    That is exception case, even then Mughals ( or Gurkanis as they called themselves) openly used some Chagatai turkic loanwords in their Persian settings. I am talking about loanwords. Some of the words remain intact after all changes.
    Dravidian loanwords are there in Indo-Aryan languages. One more thing, cross cousin marriages are practiced in parts of Gujarat, one of Solanki stronghold.

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