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Thread: Understanding 6th-Century Barbarian Social Organization and Migration through Paleoge

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Principe View Post
    Don’t worry it will be found eventually
    Maybe even tomorrow
    R1b>M269>L23>L51>L11>P312>DF19>DF88>FGC11833 >S4281>S4268>Z17112 (S17075-)

    Y-cousin: 6DRIF-23 (DF19>>Z17112+, S17075+)

    Ancestors: Francis Cooke (M223/I2a2a) b1583; Hester Mahieu (Cooke) (J1c2 mtDNA) b.1584; Richard Warren (E-M35) b1578; Elizabeth Walker (Warren) (H1j mtDNA) b1583;
    John Mead (I2a1/P37.2) b1634; Rev. Joseph Hull (I1, L1301+ L1302-) b1595; Benjamin Harrington (M223/I2a2a-Y5729) b1618; Joshua Griffith (L21>DF13) b1593;
    John Wing (U106) b1584; Hermann Wilhelm (DF19) b1635

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  3. #12
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    Ineresting CL23 is my marker.....Lombard or Heruli or Celtic/Illyrian/Dacian Pannonia......who else was there at the time?
    Last edited by vettor; 02-20-2018 at 11:18 PM.

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  5. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by vettor View Post
    Ineresting CL23 is my marker.....Lombard or Heruli or Celtic/Illyrian/Dacian Pannonia......who else was there at the time?
    CL23 seems to be clustering near modern Bergamo autosomal cluster so either Celtic or Roman.

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  7. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dewsloth View Post
    Maybe even tomorrow
    That’s the right mentality

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  9. #15
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    'In contrast, in Collegno it was notable that the five individuals with major southern ancestry
    are primarily assigned to Italy using PAA, exhibited local strontium signatures. When examining the
    two major kindred, we observe the striking general pattern that earlier generations had strontium
    isotope values that diverged from the local range more than later generations (Fig 3D, Figure S15.3).
    This appears to fit a model of individuals of central/northern European ancestry migrating and
    settling in Collegno amongst a set of local individuals of primarily Italian origin.
    '

    the five individuals are nor highlighted, yet described as major southern ancestry and can thus only correspond to CL94/23/121/31/25/30/38 saying a lot of the Y hg of the male indis and the local post roman (roman) context since they are not recent 6th migrants;
    Geno2.0NG 51%SEurope 19%WCEurope 13%Scandinavia 5%AsiaMinor 4%EEurope 4%GB&Ireland 3%Arabia myOrigins 52%WCEurope 40%SEEurope 5%BritishIsles 3%WMiddleEast DNA.Land 49%NWEuropean 27%SEuropean 13%MedIslander 11%Sardinian myHeritage 51.8%NWEuropean 33.2%Italian 7.9%Greek 7.1%Balkan gencove 29%NItaly 19%EMed 15%NBritishIsles 12%SWEurope 10%NCEurope 9%Scandinavia 6%NEEurope GenePlazaK29 54.4%NWEurope 37.6%GreekAlbania 5.6%WAsian 2.4%SWAsia

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  11. #16
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    https://www.biorxiv.org/content/earl...0.figures-only

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  13. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by vettor View Post
    Ineresting CL23 is my marker.....Lombard or Heruli or Celtic/Illyrian/Dacian Pannonia......who else was there at the time?
    Except that the lone T1 guy plots with the southern Europeans. If anything, it's a Roman marker, not a barbarian one. Sure, I suppose it could have been among north Europeans indigenously, most likely from the prior farming population that pushed into the region.

    EDIT: To elaborate a little better, the PCA on page 109 demonstrates this as they are whole genome sequences, and the R1b guys are very much "north men", probably from southern Scandinavia (Sweden/Denmark), and the rarecoal analysis on page 110 shows something similar. None of the sequences plot with Britain, or anywhere close to Iberia despite the continuous generalization of R1b as being western, even in this paper. Another interesting note that doesn't really mean much is that the I1-L22 guy plots in central Europe on the PCA, and one of the I2-M223 guys plots with the T1 guy in southern Europe.
    Last edited by ADW_1981; 02-21-2018 at 01:55 AM.
    YDNA: R1b-Z220 (A7066+) (1800's Stepney, London(Bethnal Green), UK George Wood b. 1782
    maternal-grandfather YDNA: prob. I1 Gurr, George 1843, Feversham, Kent, England.
    maternal-grandmother YDNA: R1b-P311+ Beech, John Richard b. 1780, Lewes, England
    maternal-ggrandfather YDNA R1b-U106 Thomas, Edward b 1854, Sittingbourne, Kent
    paternal-ggf YDNA: R1b-L48. Gould, John Somerset England 1800s.
    paternal-ggf YDNA: R1b-L48. Scott, William Hamilton mdka Ireland(?) < 1800s

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  15. #18
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    What about the other T ..... T1a1 SZ36 ?

  16. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by vettor View Post
    What about the other T ..... T1a1 SZ36 ?
    I meant SZ36 sorry, but it looks like the other T1 is southern based on this excerpt on page 157
    "Two individuals with >50% Iberian and some ‘southern’ ancestry (in graves CL23 and
    CL94) are also clearly not local to Collegno, though they are not related to the other
    kindred"

    Oddly enough CL94 is a DF99 guy with >50% Iberian ancestry + other southern. Go figure
    YDNA: R1b-Z220 (A7066+) (1800's Stepney, London(Bethnal Green), UK George Wood b. 1782
    maternal-grandfather YDNA: prob. I1 Gurr, George 1843, Feversham, Kent, England.
    maternal-grandmother YDNA: R1b-P311+ Beech, John Richard b. 1780, Lewes, England
    maternal-ggrandfather YDNA R1b-U106 Thomas, Edward b 1854, Sittingbourne, Kent
    paternal-ggf YDNA: R1b-L48. Gould, John Somerset England 1800s.
    paternal-ggf YDNA: R1b-L48. Scott, William Hamilton mdka Ireland(?) < 1800s

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  18. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by ADW_1981 View Post
    I meant SZ36 sorry, but it looks like the other T1 is southern based on this excerpt on page 157
    "Two individuals with >50% Iberian and some ‘southern’ ancestry (in graves CL23 and
    CL94) are also clearly not local to Collegno, though they are not related to the other
    kindred"

    Oddly enough CL94 is a DF99 guy with >50% Iberian ancestry + other southern. Go figure
    SZ36 is a male child, clearly not a soldier , so he had parents most likely with him ( unless he was a slave)...........it stated that he is designated as southern although he is on the southern -northern border..........I assume southern means alpine italy and the balkans and northern mean north of these areas.
    It is also stated although buried in NW Italy ( Collagno ) he did not come from there based on his isotopic numbers.

    CL23 is a IBS/Bergamo mix, lightly framed adult which does not fit the "heavy infantry mold" for a warrior, so is either light infantry or a farmer type

    I would be interested on how long the lombards/Heruli stayed in Pannonia under Roman "care" before moving into northern Italy ..........my guess would be close to 300 years years ........one need to consider that the ostrogoths where in Italy for 200 years before the lombards moved in ..............which posses a last question.........where the romans still around when the lombards crossed the danube into Pannonia

    European = 99.2%............Central Asian = 0.8% .............Yfull - 1460BC
    Father's Mtdna .........T2b17
    Grandfather's Mtdna .......T1a1e
    Sons Mtdna .......K1a4
    Maternal Grandfather paternal......I1d-P109...CTS6009
    Wife's Ydna .....R1a-Z282

    My Path = ( K-M9+, TL-P326+, T-M184+, L490+, M70+, PF5664+, L131+, L446+, CTS933+, CTS54+, CTS8862+, Z19945+, Y70078+ )

    The main negatives = ( M193-, P322-, P327-, Pages11- , L25- , CTS1848- )

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