Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123
Results 21 to 28 of 28

Thread: Ancient DNA upends the horse family tree

  1. #21
    Registered Users
    Posts
    746
    Sex

    Quote Originally Posted by johen View Post

    In verse I.162.18, the Rigveda describes the horse as having 34 ribs (17 pairs), while the Central Asian horse has 18 pairs (36) of ribs.
    This means that the horse described in the Vedas is the native Indian breed (with 34 ribs) and not the Central Asian variety.
    Is the following statement true?
    The Siwalik horse with 34 ribs went extinct in the Pleistocene; this is an extremely old canard used by various OIT theorists which is simply factually untenable. There is no native Indian breed of horse with 34 ribs alive at the time of the Indo-Aryanisation of the subcontinent.
    Quoted from this Forum:

    "Which superman haplogroup is the toughest - R1a or R1b? And which SNP mutation spoke Indo-European first? There's only one way for us to find out ... fight!"

  2. #22
    Registered Users
    Posts
    312
    Sex
    Location
    Russia

    Quote Originally Posted by Afshar View Post
    It is really fascinating that domestic horses (as used by Central asian nomads in history) do not descend from Botai horses.
    It is not fascinating .
    Skeptics argue that there is not enough evidence for the domestication of the Botay horse. Optimists say that the Botay horse was domesticated. People having big fantasy claimed about the Botay horseriding. Probably the skeptics is the closest to the truth.
    Last edited by Ral; 03-28-2018 at 02:53 PM.

  3. The Following User Says Thank You to Ral For This Useful Post:

     Afshar (03-28-2018)

  4. #23
    Banned
    Posts
    81
    Sex

    Quote Originally Posted by Ral View Post
    It is not fascinating .
    Skeptics argue that there is not enough evidence for the domestication of the Botay horse. Optimists say that the Botay horse was domesticated. People with great fantasies claimed about the Botay horseriding. Probably the skeptics is the closest to the truth.
    Botay horses were domesticated. The 2009 finding established that. However the new finding suggests that Przewalski horses may have descended from them or are close relatives. It is just that modern horses are not their descendants, which means horse domestication may have happened twice at least or maybe not. This makes more sense if we assume that Botay horses were not ridden and there is no need to assume that horse domestication happened twice. It happened once but was a cultural tradition and humans domesticated different kinds of horses all over the steppe. Eventually one particular culture started selecting horses for riding over many generations and their horses eventually replaced others.
    Last edited by rhad; 03-28-2018 at 03:18 PM.

  5. The Following User Says Thank You to rhad For This Useful Post:

     Afshar (03-28-2018)

  6. #24
    Registered Users
    Posts
    1,189
    Sex
    Ethnicity
    Anglo
    Nationality
    Canadian

    Horses usually have 18 pairs of ribs, but sometimes 17. This is common among mammals, e.g. humans usually have 12 pairs, but occasionally 11 or 13. Some breeds, particularly Arabians, are more likely to have only 17 pairs. Possibly the breed favoured in ancient India was like Arabians; or maybe it just happened to be a 17-ribbed horse at one particularly important event which was immortalized in verse, and that became the standard.

  7. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Megalophias For This Useful Post:

     Awale (03-28-2018), parasar (03-29-2018), Ryukendo (03-29-2018)

  8. #25
    Registered Users
    Posts
    312
    Sex
    Location
    Russia

    Quote Originally Posted by rhad View Post
    Botay horses were domesticated. The 2009 finding established that. However the new finding suggests that Przewalski horses may have descended from them or are close relatives. It is just that modern horses are not their descendants, which means horse domestication may have happened twice at least or maybe not. This makes more sense if we assume that Botay horses were not ridden and there is no need to assume that horse domestication happened twice. It happened once but was a cultural tradition and humans domesticated different kinds of horses all over the steppe. Eventually one particular culture started selecting horses for riding over many generations and their horses eventually replaced others.
    As I know, skeptics argue their position by the fact that the Botay region was a large region of wild horse habitat (possibly hundreds of thousands ) and wild horse was the main species of the animal that the botayean hunted for. This explains the numerous bones of horses in the settlements. I'm not going to defend this position.

  9. #26
    Registered Users
    Posts
    5,592

    Quote Originally Posted by Megalophias View Post
    Horses usually have 18 pairs of ribs, but sometimes 17. This is common among mammals, e.g. humans usually have 12 pairs, but occasionally 11 or 13. Some breeds, particularly Arabians, are more likely to have only 17 pairs. Possibly the breed favoured in ancient India was like Arabians; or maybe it just happened to be a 17-ribbed horse at one particularly important event which was immortalized in verse, and that became the standard.
    There are other peculiarities too with Arabians.
    "17 ribs (while most other horses have 18), 5 lumbar vertebrae (compared to 6 in other breeds) and 16 tail vertebrae (instead of 18)"
    And are hot blooded.

    The Rg Vedic hymn is to the horse in general, but it is possible that a particular horse is being recognized. The instructions are on how to carefully cut a horse for sacrifice.
    "HYMN CLXII. The Horse ... The four-and-thirty ribs of the. Swift Charger, kin to the Gods, the slayer's hatchet pierces."
    http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/rigveda/rv01162.htm

  10. #27
    Registered Users
    Posts
    169
    Sex

    Quote Originally Posted by parasar View Post

    The Rg Vedic hymn is to the horse in general, but it is possible that a particular horse is being recognized. The instructions are on how to carefully cut a horse for sacrifice.
    "HYMN CLXII. The Horse ... The four-and-thirty ribs of the. Swift Charger, kin to the Gods, the slayer's hatchet pierces."
    http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/rigveda/rv01162.htm
    Can I ask a few questions:

    1. This kind of culture was totally not related to IVC, wasn't it?
    So even if R1a could be found in IVC skulls, the R1a might not be connected to
    modern hindu R1a-z93, right?
    2. Is there any human sacrifice mentioned in Rigveda or ancient Hinduism?
    3. Is the following horse in the temple related to Rigveda or not?
    In my opinion, the other men's actions have something to do with nomadism, b/c the horse made horse owner
    so superior to other people, like a god to other people at the ancient times.
    So there could be no massacre at all when the chariots appeared. I think the neolithic farmers would just bow down to the charioteer as a god. As far as I know, South american indian could not use a bow well, being afraid of just the explosion of 15c rifle, even if the bow was more accurate to kill people than 15c rifle at that time.

    http://www.ourglobaltrek.com/wp-cont...ajuraho-10.jpg

    P.s at similar time, chariot, horse sacrifice and human sacrifice at whole eurasia, coincident?????:

    mycenaean:

    The sacrifice of Polyxena by the triumphant Greeks, Trojan War, c. 570-550 BCE

    china bronze:
    Abstract
    Records on human sacrifice have been revealed by the oracle-bone inscriptions of Shang Dynasty. Human sacrifices carry special symbolic significance in Shang Dynasty for worshipping spirits. Different methods of killing were used in worship rituals. As the inscription reveals, some words are used as the methods of killing of human beings in general. In the meantime, some special characters are used to refer to specific killing methods through analysis of the characters and structures of the language. The lecture will focus on 12 different methods of killing human sacrifice. The methods include beheading, splitting the body into halves, dismembering bodies, beating to death, chopping to death, extracting blood, burying alive, drowning, burning to death, boiling, corpse displaying, exposing body part to hot sun. With the analysis of the different methods of human sacrifice, it is easy to conclude that human sacrifice was a very common religious practice in Shang dynasty. These practices reflect the cruelty of the rulers to their subjects and their piety towards the spirits they worship.
    ===> But CWC had no horse and human sacrifice at all, right?
    Last edited by johen; 03-29-2018 at 04:48 PM.

  11. #28
    Junior Member
    Posts
    1
    Sex
    Location
    Oregon
    Ethnicity
    UK/Scot/Jew/Susquehannock
    Nationality
    US
    Y-DNA
    Cohen Sire Line
    mtDNA
    Welsh Mare Line

    Need experts on sperm injection, sorting, and traits from DNA

    I need to work with a horse fertility genetics/breeding expert who can also help with transition to humans. Special interest in older eggs for both horses and humans -- the ones that no one wants to inject because they might "pop."
    Who should I work with?

    Additional questions for everyone:
    1. From what I've read, the company that makes faces from DNA thinks they can at least show you differences between potential siblings. Has anyone confirmed this?
    2. Can they also do a full body cartoon, not just face?
    3. What has been done for face/body cartoons for horses?
    4. I have a technique where I have a "racetrack" to sort sperm into buckets. I can then pull a few sperm from each bucket and run DNA. I want to
    * display an excel type spreadsheet, sortable by clicking column header, for various traits/defects (directly from genes, or relatively neural network fitted from examples), and
    * I want a thumbnail with cartoon for the potential child, given at least one egg that has had DNA run on it (or back solved from an embryo or child).
    Who can I work with to demonstrate this on horses first? Horses have many traits that are inherited that can readily be converted to cartoons, and I'm sure many can translate over into human cartoons.
    5. I have a 1994 mare whose children pay for their leases in jumper winnings. Horse eggs are double the diameter of human eggs. I want to demonstrate my sperm inject without popping egg technique on my mare's retrieved eggs first, so I don't delay based on human review boards. I have the frozen semen for the stallion I want -- he worked very well on her granddaughter and great granddaughter -- the foals are 2 yrs old and stunning. She herself did not get pregnant live cover, despite being turned put with a stallion for a full year. This young stallion impregnated the other 5 mares . How can I talk to about bridging the gap from horses to humans? Am I free to use my own eggs for the first human transition, as long as I don't use any other womens' eggs?
    Thanks!
    Last edited by centaur; 05-09-2018 at 06:12 PM.

Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123

Similar Threads

  1. Genealogy Family Tree vs. Genetic Family Tree
    By Wing Genealogist in forum Other
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 06-28-2017, 11:06 PM
  2. Replies: 1
    Last Post: 05-19-2017, 12:30 PM
  3. Family tree
    By SWAHILLI_PRINCE16 in forum AncestryDNA
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 09-02-2016, 06:58 PM
  4. Replies: 1
    Last Post: 07-26-2016, 05:53 PM
  5. Horse breeds in ancient steppe people
    By Afshar in forum Fauna
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 10-20-2015, 02:44 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •