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Thread: Help on testing guidance - FireHaired

  1. #1
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    Help on testing guidance - FireHaired

    So what do u mean Mikwww by one SNP at a time. I don't understand the idea of a SNP do u think if I do some type of FTDNA test I can figure out which subclade I am.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fire Haired View Post
    Geno 2.0 tests for Germanic? R1b1a2a1a1 S21/U106, Italo Gaulish(Urnfield culture?) R1b1a2a1a2b S28/U152, and Celtic R1b1a2a1a2c L21. Our direct male line all we know goes back to Scotland or England L21 and S21 take up almost all of Britain's R1b. So I know we have something very very very very very rare I think probably R1b1a2a1a2a Df27. Because I but our haplotype into one of those predictors and every time R1b North/South was most likely. Later I found out the predictor was out of date and now R1b North/South is under R1b1a2a1a2a Df27 which is over 50% in Iberia, over 20% in most of France, and 1-5% in British isles. I am hoping for R1b1a2a1a L11* because that is the original Germanic Italo Celtic form probably what those 4,600ybp Bell Beaker R1b samples. Or had. Or proto Italo Celtic R1b1a2a1a2 S116/P312*.
    You may have a positive SNP result that is important but that National Genographic and FTDNA don't list in their official phylogenetic trees. Also, your Y STRs might be very important. Predictor tools are best at predicting strong matching cases, but that doesn't mean we couldn't get some additional guidance for further testing for your Y DNA kit by looking at the STRs. I've got thousands of R1b people who have tested that we can compare with you. If you haven't, please join the R1b project. What is the kit # you are trying to determine how to proceed with?

    There is no use talking in generalities. Let's look at your details and then I can tell you where your kit might fit in and explain what testing options might pertain and what they mean.
    Last edited by TigerMW; 09-22-2013 at 03:32 AM.

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    Mikewww what do u mean by SNP sorry I don't totally understand. Do u know how possible it is one SNP at a time can helo find what subclade I am.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikewww View Post
    You may have a positive SNP result that is important but that National Genographic and FTDNA don't list in their official phylogenetic trees. Also, your Y STRs might be very important. Predictor tools are best at predicting strong matching cases, but that doesn't mean we couldn't get some additional guidance for further testing for your Y DNA kit by looking at the STRs. I've got thousands of R1b people who have tested that we can compare with you. If you haven't, please join the R1b project. What is the kit # you are trying to determine how to proceed with?

    There is no use talking in generalities. Let's look at your details and then I can tell you where your kit might fit in and explain what testing options might pertain and what they mean.
    It is not me its my father I am not an adult he is the boss of the house so he had the right to take the test and he deals with all the money stuff. First a few years ago he did Ancestry.com which had total BS about cro magnon and artisans and only told us R1b and as if our direct male line tells our full ancestry or something how would a R1b1a2a L23 person from Iraq react to that. We also did Geno 2.0 which I think is mainly BS they also say Paleoithic R1b and as if it tells more about ur ancestry than it actulley does. Their migration maps are only based on distrubtation. But they did tell us R1b1a2a1a P310 which I later learned is also L11. Our kit number is NG7P2KMG7P. I saw on FTDNA R1b project the only one my dad would want to do is 12 STR for 48$ no way anything 100$ or more do u think there is something under 100$ were we can find what subclade were apart of. Thank u very much for trying to help.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fire Haired View Post
    It is not me its my father I am not an adult he is the boss of the house so he had the right to take the test and he deals with all the money stuff. First a few years ago he did Ancestry.com which had total BS about cro magnon and artisans and only told us R1b and as if our direct male line tells our full ancestry or something how would a R1b1a2a L23 person from Iraq react to that. We also did Geno 2.0 which I think is mainly BS they also say Paleoithic R1b and as if it tells more about ur ancestry than it actulley does. Their migration maps are only based on distrubtation. But they did tell us R1b1a2a1a P310 which I later learned is also L11. Our kit number is NG7P2KMG7P. I saw on FTDNA R1b project the only one my dad would want to do is 12 STR for 48$ no way anything 100$ or more do u think there is something under 100$ were we can find what subclade were apart of. Thank u very much for trying to help.
    Do you think you can get your father to transfer his results to an FTDNA public project. It's free and then we could see the results, although they would only be on the Y DNA SNP report screen which is this one:
    http://www.familytreedna.com/public/...x?section=ysnp

    If you guys get the Y STRs you'll then also show up on this screen. It may not be possible, but I recommend a minimum of 67 STRs.
    http://www.familytreedna.com/public/...ction=yresults

    If you take your Y STR results from Ancestry.com and type them in as a Ysearch record I can look at them and compare them with others. Ysearch is free but different testing companies report some Y STRs differently so make sure you read closely about any conversions required.
    http://www.ysearch.org/

    DF27 is a possibility since P312 and DF27 are NOT in the Geno 2 test.

    To better understand SNPs and other basic stuff about genetic genealogy I recommend joining a group designed for general Q and A like this one:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/DNA-NEWBIE/info

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    Here is our STR's from ancestry.com
    19a=14 385a/b=11/14 388=12 3891/11=14/31 390=24 391=12 392=13 393=13
    426=13 437=14 438=12 439=13 441=14 442=16 444=14 445=12 446=12 447=25
    448=19 449=30 452=30 459=11

    455=11 456=16 458=16 459a/b=9/10 460=10 461=12 462=11 463=24
    464a/b/c/d=14/15/15/14 GGAATIBO=10 YCAIIa/b=19/24 YGATA-A10=15 635=23
    Y-GATA-H4=12

    and if it is free my dad will defintley do it. Especially if u will find close matches because if someone has our surname that can help tell when they came to America and were in the UK they originated. We have been able to trace with records back my great*4 grandfather born in 1790 he was born in America. His son on our line said he was born in New York in 1817 and came to Indiana in 1835. His first wife came from Otsego, New York and they married and maybe meet in Indiana and we have records of his father living in a near by town to Otsego in the 1830's but it also said he was not born there. So I guess we cant put him down or his son into that Y SNP report screen. His first wife was a Webster and we also found there was a family with our surname the Webster family inter married with and knew really well if that is us that would bring our male line back to Essex, England.

    My great grandfather told my grandfather the family is originally Scotch Irish so lowlands of Scotland. Were not sure right now hopefully if u find a match with our surname and we can trace were in the Uk they came from. If we have a rare branch like R1b1a2a1a L11*, R1b1a2a1a2 P312/S116*, R1b1a2a1a2d or e L238 or Df19. That will give a better idea of how it is distributed but not if all we know is it goes back to the UK.

    I have been waiting for something like this thanks for taking ur time on this.
    Last edited by Fire Haired; 09-22-2013 at 04:58 AM.

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    Help on testing guidance - FireHaired

    This was off topic on a thread in R1b general so I'll start it up here.

    FireHaired, please type those DYS values into Ysearch.org by creating a new ID record. Don't forget the password and ID they give you. Please post the Ysearch ID back on this thread and then I can more easily copy the haplotype into my spreadsheet without making errors.

    Ysearch is free.

    Be careful and make sure you do any conversions needed to go from Ancestry.com to Ysearch. I think you have to convert GataH4.
    http://genforum.genealogy.com/dna/messages/3900.html

    You mentioned the North-South cluster. I do you see you have 437=14. That is one of the elements of the R1b North-South (Z220+) cluster, but you have 448=19 instead of 448=18 for North-South. Also Geno2 should have reported a positive for Z220 for you if your kit was North-South/Z220+.

    Your kit could very easily be P312 or DF27, but let's do a Ysearch comparison.
    Last edited by TigerMW; 09-23-2013 at 04:40 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fire Haired View Post
    Here is our STR's from ancestry.com
    19a=14 385a/b=11/14 388=12 3891/11=14/31 390=24 391=12 392=13 393=13
    426=13 437=14 438=12 439=13 441=14 442=16 444=14 445=12 446=12 447=25
    448=19 449=30 452=30 459=11

    455=11 456=16 458=16 459a/b=9/10 460=10 461=12 462=11 463=24
    464a/b/c/d=14/15/15/14 GGAATIBO=10 YCAIIa/b=19/24 YGATA-A10=15 635=23
    Y-GATA-H4=12
    ...
    You defnitely see P310+ in your father's results, right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fire Haired View Post
    ... We also did Geno 2.0 ... they did tell us R1b1a2a1a P310 which I later learned is also L11. ...
    Have you transferred your Geno2 account to FTDNA and joined the R1b project yet? This is free. I'd like to look closer at the Y DNA SNP report for your kit.
    I just noticed you have 426=13 with 393=13. That's a sign of a possible L51* status or Z2113+. However, an L11+/P310+ result would nullify this possibility.



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    Fire Haired, your Ysearch entry should subtract 5 from DYS442 and subtract 1 from GATA-H4.

    Unfortunately, you will then find that your nearest neighbors are at a genetic distance of 8 on 32 markers, which is very distant indeed:
    Fennessy of Ireland (39BTZ, HBZ43, FV2ZH)
    Hood of Virginia (H7DV8)
    Correa (T7QVF)

    Warner (SX42F), at a distance of 9 on 32 markers, has your 13 at DYS426.

    If we consider only the slower-changing markers, your nearest neighbors are at a genetic distance of 5 on 25 markers:
    Overton of Louisiana (WSEJX)
    Allen of England (AQJ6J) - has your 13 at DYS426
    Ford of South Carolina (24JQF)
    Sotomayor of Mexico (KKNF9)

    But please understand that all of these "neighbors" are very distant. Their common patrilineal ancestor with you may have lived a couple thousand years ago.
    Last edited by lgmayka; 09-23-2013 at 09:08 PM.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikewww View Post
    Have you transferred your Geno2 account to FTDNA and joined the R1b project yet? This is free. I'd like to look closer at the Y DNA SNP report for your kit.
    I just noticed you have 426=13 with 393=13. That's a sign of a possible L51* status or Z2113+. However, an L11+/P310+ result would nullify this possibility.
    I did two nights ago but it says the password i put in is wrong then when i try to make a new one it says my email is wrong. Then when i try to transfer again it says the kit has already been transferred so it looks like there is no way to do it again. I have the SNP's on a excel i don't know how to send them to you Mikwww
    Last edited by Fire Haired; 09-23-2013 at 10:01 PM.

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