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Thread: Epicanthic fold in North Western European

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    Quote Originally Posted by Onur Dincer View Post
    Depends on the nature and timing of those "East Eurasians." Mongoloid phenotype as we know is a later development in East Eurasia. For instance, Jomons and pure Ainus lack it, so clearly it was not so widespread in East Eurasia yet during the beginning of the isolation of the Jomon ancestors. AASI, Paleo-Oceanians and Paleo-SE Asians lack it too, though they separated from the bulk of the ancestors of modern East Eurasians earlier than the Jomon ancestors did.
    I meant to ask regardless of whether it was Mongoloid. What would Tianyuan man looked like? I'm guessing that or Salkhit is the source of East Eurasian admixture in WHG/SHG/EHG/CHG/ANE. Something similar to SE Asians given he predates the Mongoloid phenotype?

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    Quote Originally Posted by davit View Post
    I meant to ask regardless of whether it was Mongoloid. What would Tianyuan man looked like? I'm guessing that or Salkhit is the source of East Eurasian admixture in WHG/SHG/EHG/CHG/ANE. Something similar to SE Asians given he predates the Mongoloid phenotype?
    Modern SE Asians are largely Mongoloid-descended because of the Neolithic farmer migrations from what is now southern China. Tianyuan predates the Jomon-Proto-Mongoloid split, so should have a more Paleo-Eurasian (in modern human sense) look.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Onur Dincer View Post
    Modern SE Asians are largely Mongoloid-descended because of the Neolithic farmer migrations from what is now southern China. Tianyuan predates the Jomon-Proto-Mongoloid split, so should have a more Paleo-Eurasian (in modern human sense) look.
    He would have still been on the eastern side of the Eurasian split though so I imagine he still looked a bit different from Sunghir or Kosenteki and such? And he is the ancestor of most Europeans or someone like him? Sorry for bombarding you with questions.

    Anyways will we ever figure out the origins of these folds? I'm sure some gene encodes for them.
    Last edited by davit; 09-17-2020 at 01:26 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by davit View Post
    He would have still been on the eastern side of the Eurasian split though so I imagine he still looked a bit different from Sunghir or Kosenteki and such? And he is the ancestor of most Europeans or someone like him? Sorry for bombarding you with questions.

    Anyways will we ever figure out the origins of these folds? I'm sure some gene encodes for them.
    Tianyuan man and his kindred are not ancestral to most Europeans, they are ancestral to most East Eurasians instead. It is the opposite for Kostenki and Sunghir.
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    The EDAR mutation that shows a similar east/west divide didn't reach fixation in the Beringians. It was also found in Motala which is dated to 7,900-7,500 BP. Likewise the ancestral gene is found in some ancient native americans like Anzick-1.

    It'd be easy for something to stick around at low levels. After east/west contact picked up and the Uralic migrations I wouldn't be too surprised to see it in a few random people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Finn View Post
    Does this fall into epicanthic fold?
    Those are hooded eyes, as far as I know they are not particularly rare, I have also the exact same setup as you do despite being mixed-race myself.

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    Norwegian chess grandmaster Magnus Carslen is quite "mongoloid" looking for a northern European.
    Terminal SNPs: FGC31931/V2381 PF6576 PF7562 PH1631/V2850

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    Quote Originally Posted by icebreaker View Post
    Norwegian chess grandmaster Magnus Carslen is quite "mongoloid" looking for a northern European.
    Yet it has zero to do with Mongoloid anatomy or the true epicanthic fold. He rather has very low, rectangular, quite deep and fairly small orbits with a very deep nasion in comparison to the glabellar region. He has other facial peculiarities, which can be interpreted in many ways and are somewhat out of the ordinary, but all of this has zero to do with East Asian proper. And his eyes are completely free from any sort of epicanthic fold, whether be it pseudo or true one. He will get, because of his eye regions anatomy and soft parts, quite hooded eyes when aging.
    Last edited by Riverman; 09-19-2020 at 10:19 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xenus View Post
    The EDAR mutation that shows a similar east/west divide didn't reach fixation in the Beringians. It was also found in Motala which is dated to 7,900-7,500 BP. Likewise the ancestral gene is found in some ancient native americans like Anzick-1.

    It'd be easy for something to stick around at low levels. After east/west contact picked up and the Uralic migrations I wouldn't be too surprised to see it in a few random people.
    "Our data show that a variant in EDAR that affects tooth shape, hair follicles and thickness, sweat, and mammary gland ductal branching and that occurs at nearly 100%
    frequency in present day Native Americans and East Asians
    (Kamberov et al., 2013) was not fixed in USR1, Anzick-1, a
    Brazil_LapaDoSanto_9600BP individual and a Brazil_Laranjal_
    6700BP individual, all of whom carry the ancestral allele
    (Table S7)."
    http://xn--c1acc6aafa1c.xn--p1ai/wp-...History-of.pdf

    Anzick-1 indeed was not fixed for EDAR, but heterogenous.
    "USR1 was heterozygous for the EDAR mutation. Anzick 1 was also heterozygous for it ... all pure modern Amerindian populations are fixed or close to being fixed for the mutation."
    https://genetiker.wordpress.com/2018...locene-alaska/

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    Quote Originally Posted by icebreaker View Post
    Norwegian chess grandmaster Magnus Carslen is quite "mongoloid" looking for a northern European.
    I think it looks Mediterranean
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