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Thread: Epicanthic fold in North Western European

  1. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riverman View Post
    Thank you, my father has this EDAR mutation on Your DNA Portal and he has really stiff hair
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  2. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riverman View Post
    Actually its better to explain the thick straight hair of East Asians by simply looking at the cross section of the different hair types:


    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/e5/c3...3ac311d1a6.jpg


    https://activilong.com/img/cms/coupe...cheveux_EN.jpg
    Is there also a reason why Caucasians would have more strands?

  3. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by davit View Post
    Is there also a reason why Caucasians would have more strands?
    I can just say its genetic and there is also a difference between blondes and various dark hairs. Blondes have usually finer and more hair per inch, while thicker, coarser hair is more common in specific West Eurasian populations. Usually those which are generally more hairy, like around the Caucasus and Iran, or with respective ancestry from these groups (Iranian Neolithic ancestry).

    Minar explains that your hair color signifies how many strands you have on your head at any given time. For example, Asian and African American women, who tend to have black hair, have on average 60,000 strands at a time. Women with blond hair, on the other hand, have on average 450,000. Red and brunette hair falls somewhere in between. The lighter the hair, the more strand
    https://www.self.com/story/why-does-hair-fall-out
    Last edited by Riverman; 10-18-2020 at 05:18 PM.

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  5. #144
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    Incidentally, and just a guess, possibly some of the distinctive shape of eyes found among Northwest Europeans (and elsewhere where higher steppe input is found) may have come from the Indo-Europeans, or be influenced by them somehow. The ones with the least steppe, like Sardinians, don't seem to show it. I'm referring to the shape of eyes similar to that of this Russian, Sergei Pugachev, for example:

    RussianSergei_Pugachev.jpgRussianSergei_Pugachev_SU_3449346b.jpg
    Last edited by Piquerobi; 10-25-2020 at 01:41 PM.

  6. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by Piquerobi View Post
    Just a guess, the shape mentioned may have come from the Indo-Europeans, or be influenced by them somehow, when it comes to Northwest Europeans. The ones with the least steppe, like Sardinians, don't seem to show it. I'm referring to the shape of eyes similar that of this, for example, Sergei Pugachev:

    RussianSergei_Pugachev.jpgRussianSergei_Pugachev_SU_3449346b.jpg
    I think its generally related to Mesolithic forager ancestry and low, rectangular orbits. You can see it in fairly unmixed Berbers too for example:


    https://www.powder.com/stories/a-ski...las-mountains/

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  8. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by Piquerobi View Post
    Incidentally, and just a guess, possibly some of the distinctive shape of eyes found among Northwest Europeans (and elsewhere where higher steppe input is found) may have come from the Indo-Europeans, or be influenced by them somehow. The ones with the least steppe, like Sardinians, don't seem to show it. I'm referring to the shape of eyes similar to that of this Russian, Sergei Pugachev, for example:

    RussianSergei_Pugachev.jpgRussianSergei_Pugachev_SU_3449346b.jpg
    Makes sense. Makes you wonder if Indo-Europeans got it from their WHG, ANE or ENA ancestry? I would bet on WHG.

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  10. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by davit View Post
    Makes sense. Makes you wonder if Indo-Europeans got it from their WHG, ANE or ENA ancestry? I would bet on WHG.
    Most of the Northern derived Mesolithic foragers had rather broad faces with low, rectangular orbits, that's true from Siberia to North Africa. I wouldn't restrict it to any particular subgroup of that time.

  11. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riverman View Post
    Most of the Northern derived Mesolithic foragers had rather broad faces with low, rectangular orbits, that's true from Siberia to North Africa. I wouldn't restrict it to any particular subgroup of that time.
    Yea hooded eyes and prominent brow ridges are indications of robustness imo and it would make sense that it was found in all Mesolithic foragers.

  12. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by xenus View Post
    As far as I know the epicanthic fold is considered an important environmental adaptation to cold weather and snow. If it's so easy to conflate a marker of youth with a marker of advanced age then it wouldn't be that great of a discriminator. The variability is also huge for the epicanthic fold itself.
    On one hand the moderate fold is clear but not extreme


    On the more extreme end of the spectrum we have this example that caused the facial recognition algorithm that New Zealand uses to validate passport photos to fail.
    If epicanthic fold is an adaptation to cold weather and snow. Why is it more prevelant among East Asians than in Northern Europeans and Siberians?
    Last edited by Mirix; 12-06-2020 at 12:41 PM.

  13. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mirix View Post
    If epicanthic fold is an adaptation to cold weather and snow. Why is it more prevelant among East Asians than in Northern Europeans and Siberians?
    Because the core East Asian/Mongoloid group was, in my opinion, in a refuge which was quite extreme. That's why they made various adaptations others didn't to an extremely cold environment and to a social life which demanded to live closely together. Western ANE for example seems to have had a different path way, with an energy diet first and simply evading the coldest spots later. And like blond hair, I think that the eye shape became also a kind of "ethnic signal" once the frequency was higher, which means it became favoured in the sexual and social selection. The latter not necessarily in the extreme form, but since more than one allel being involved, I guess the extreme shapes can be also attributed to a normal distribution in a population in which the trait became, as such, in a more moderate form, nearly fixed.

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