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Thread: James Lick calculator and 23andme v5 chip, H(G16129A) with an extra R11a mutation?

  1. #1
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    James Lick calculator and 23andme v5 chip, H(G16129A) with an extra R11a mutation?

    23andme gave me H3. I entered my data into James Licks calculator and saw confusing results. Can someone help me understand what I’m seeing?

    This is my top match:
    1) H(G16129A)

    Defining Markers for haplogroup H(G16129A):
    HVR2: 263G
    CR: 750G 1438G 4769G 8860G 15326G
    HVR1: 16129A

    Marker path from rCRS to haplogroup H(G16129A) (plus extra markers):
    H2a2a1(rCRS) ⇨ 263G ⇨ H2a2a ⇨ 8860G 15326G ⇨ H2a2 ⇨ 750G ⇨ H2a ⇨ 4769G ⇨ H2 ⇨ 1438G ⇨ H ⇨ 16129A ⇨ H(G16129A) ⇨ 10978G

    Imperfect Match. Your results contained differences with this haplogroup:
    Matches(4): 263G 1438G 8860G 16129A
    Extras(1): 10978G
    Untested(3): 750 4769 15326

    When I look up H(G16129A) google says it experienced a “back mutation?” What’s this mean?

    When I look up the mutation 16129A I find it’s haplogroup R11a

    I’m so confused.

    Thank you

  2. #2
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    This wil not be a perfect explanation but I will have a go. 23&me tests ~20% of the mtdna genome but sometimes the gaps do not matter and James Lick can predict the right sub clade.
    In your case the gaps do matter sadly, strange since H3 is so common in Europe and hence USA but they have not tested the positions which would define the next level down.
    Each mutation can be used in the tree more than once, in some cases very many times, so looking up the mutation will be confusing since it will direct you one of many wrong ways (it did!).

    Back mutations (to what that position was further up the tree) are commonly used to define sub branches.

    The H3 project of ftdna does not say much at all but H3 reaches a peak in Galicia, Basque Country and Sardinia. The admin name is given.
    You could trail through the mtdna philo-tree under H3 to look for the back mutation you have but the info is only the same as what James Licks calculator uses.
    Does his output list the other sub clades that you might be with % likelihoods? If so you may be able to follow his algorithm’s logic through the tree, but with 3 missing mutations it will not be easy to follow down.
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    Out of 64 pre 1800 births 45% Cheshire, 1% Irish (or Scottish), 25% south Derbyshire, 13% Burton on Trent area (where 4 counties within 10 miles), 7% Shropshire, 1% Staffs, 8% Lancs. So far all British Isles despite what some testing companies say.

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    Thank you I think I’m following along. There weren’t any percent likelihood. These are my top matches:

    1. H(G16129A) - Matches: 263G, 1438G, 8860G, 16139A - Extra: 10878G, 3 untested
    2. H3af - matches: same as above - extra: same as above - no calls: 6776C and 8470G
    3. 11 options for 3rd place. Besides H, all other haplotypes have at least 1 mismatch.

    On haplogroup.org H3af includes G16129A! as a defining mutation. But I don’t see the exclamation mark on the James lick site.

    Is there a difference between G16129A! and G16129A (without the ! )?

    Btw it says 14.6% mtdna was tested at 23 using the V5 chip.

    Thank you!

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