Page 1 of 5 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 45

Thread: DF13* 9919 Variety (L21>DF13* 459=9,9 YCAII=19,19)

  1. #1
    Registered Users
    Posts
    1,051
    Sex
    Location
    Central United States
    Ethnicity
    Celtic, Goidelic
    Y-DNA (P)
    DF13>FGC5494>FGC5496
    mtDNA (M)
    H11a2a>C12014T

    United States of America Netherlands Isle of Man Scotland Poland Northern Ireland

    DF13* 9919 Variety (L21>DF13* 459=9,9 YCAII=19,19)

    One of the oldest DF13* set of haploytpes appears to be the Variety cluster known as 9919.
    which was classified as such by MikeW. This modal appears to be around 1.8K BC, a little
    older than Z253 and DF21. The 9919 variety has a strong Ireland and Scotland initial presence.

    9919 All
    N=74 9.63 / 3,050.71 = Var/Coal. Ybp Age
    Modal Ybp = 3,801.36

    Ire and Sco n=28 10.05 / 3,182.75
    Ire n=13 9.83 / 3,115.31
    Sco n=15 8.89 / 2,815.82
    Eng n=18 7.14 / 2,262.43
    Wal n=3 5.56 / 1,759.89
    Por n=4 2.13 / 673.16

    z9919-A All n=16 8.04 / 2,546.61
    Ire and Sco z9919-A N=6 6.33 / 2,006.27
    ENG z9919-A N=6 5.56 / 1,759.89
    Ire z9919-A N=4 5.06 / 1,603.70
    Sco z9919-A N=2 3.75 / 1,187.92


    z9919-A1 all n=9 3.19 / 1,009.00
    Ire and Sco z9919-A1 n=9 3.19 / 1,009.00
    Ire z9919-A1 n=6 3.56 / 1,126.33
    Sco z9919-A1 n=3 1.56 / 492.77

    9919-A2 All n=6 1.97 / 624.76
    9919-A3 to A9 & Sp n=31 7.12 / 2,256.69
    z9919-A-SP n=5 2.00 / 633.56
    9919-A9 n=6 3.69 / 1,170.33
    9919-A8 n=2 1.50 / 475.17


    z9919-B All n=11 1.24 / 392.70

    Ire and Sco z9919-B n=9 1.26 / 398.91
    Ire z9919-B n=2 1.00 / 316.78
    Sco z9919-B n=7 1.10 / 349.10

    MJost
    Last edited by TigerMW; 11-04-2013 at 11:38 PM. Reason: clarified thread title
    148326, FGC-0FW1R, YSID6 & YF3272 R-DF13>FGC5494>*7448>*5496>*5521>*5511>*5539>*5538>* 5508>*5524
     
    Watterson USA GD1/67 & GD3/111, *5508+. GD1ís fatherís sister-23andme pred. 3rd Cous w/ 0.91% DNA shared-3 seg. Largest on Chr1 w/non-Euro admix affirms my NPE paternal Watterson line via aDNA & YDNA. A 2nd pred. 4th cous has same DKA b. 1840's Georgia and MDKA d 1703 IOM. 3rd Cousin FtDNA FF is from the Watterson Ala. *5538+ b. IOM w/ GD6/67 & GD8/111 -SGD3. FGC5539+ a Scot-Ross GD13/111 -SGD8

  2. #2
    Registered Users
    Posts
    846
    Sex
    Y-DNA (P)
    R1b-S1051 9919-A
    mtDNA (M)
    U5b1e

    Canada United States of America United Kingdom France Ukraine
    Thanks for updating the numbers Mark.

  3. #3
    Registered Users
    Posts
    1,051
    Sex
    Location
    Central United States
    Ethnicity
    Celtic, Goidelic
    Y-DNA (P)
    DF13>FGC5494>FGC5496
    mtDNA (M)
    H11a2a>C12014T

    United States of America Netherlands Isle of Man Scotland Poland Northern Ireland
    Your sure welcome.

    The 9919 cluster maybe a huge key to where DF13 was most probably spawned. When I saw these numbers I said, 'Da...' these are hard numbers of a solid Isle cluster with a MRCA close in age to DF13 and L21, which are very close together. I just dont see any contiental nodes this old. And when you look at the two next oldest subclades DF21 and Z253's it the same picture and not just a fluke as also being staged on the Western Isles and running in different tracks. Contiental testing must be increased to prove or disprove that the Isles were the starting block.

    What was the money maker at this time causing the expansion of this variety, which really needs a SNP found?

    MJost
    148326, FGC-0FW1R, YSID6 & YF3272 R-DF13>FGC5494>*7448>*5496>*5521>*5511>*5539>*5538>* 5508>*5524
     
    Watterson USA GD1/67 & GD3/111, *5508+. GD1ís fatherís sister-23andme pred. 3rd Cous w/ 0.91% DNA shared-3 seg. Largest on Chr1 w/non-Euro admix affirms my NPE paternal Watterson line via aDNA & YDNA. A 2nd pred. 4th cous has same DKA b. 1840's Georgia and MDKA d 1703 IOM. 3rd Cousin FtDNA FF is from the Watterson Ala. *5538+ b. IOM w/ GD6/67 & GD8/111 -SGD3. FGC5539+ a Scot-Ross GD13/111 -SGD8

  4. #4
    Registered Users
    Posts
    846
    Sex
    Y-DNA (P)
    R1b-S1051 9919-A
    mtDNA (M)
    U5b1e

    Canada United States of America United Kingdom France Ukraine
    It's really difficult to say where this family group is from. If I had to put money down right now I would say inside a trangle from Hanover down to Stuttgart and over to Paris with most moving into the western part of modern France and then into the Isles shortly after. The other possibility is that it originated in the isles and there was an early back migration to mainland Europe. What's interesting is that when you data mine the other project pages looking for some of the unique traits of the 9919 family you don't find much in terms of the pattern of unique slow moving marker values. The highest concentration of DF13 is in the Isles but also so is the testing. There are some within the 9919 family which have German or Saxon ancestry and a few with either Scandinavian names or ancestry. The question is "are the names and ancestries correct?" I keep trying to sift through information regarding my own line back to France but there are 3 different unrealted lines. It could be possible that one or even none of these lines are the genetic line that came from Normandy. When you start digging into other peoples genealogy from the 9919 family you have to think..are these intact lines or recently broken genetically? I still have alot of questions with few answers unfortunately. Realizing that the 9919 group has been evolving into L513 and DF41 etc for the past 4,000 years (+/-) you would think you would discover some of the odd unique pattern values within the national projects? The only other close R1b's who seem to have a value of 8 for DYS 643 are found under U106 and another under the Scotish project with the last name of Walace which leads me to believe it isn't ancestral. When you look at the values of the 9919 A-1 group it's pretty unique as well in terms of slow moving mutations. I know you're right that we won't begin to be solve this until some new SNP's are discovered within the family. The group reminds me of a population that was descimated and scattered early on as though we were refugee boat people from Santorini or something.

    George

  5. #5
    Registered Users
    Posts
    846
    Sex
    Y-DNA (P)
    R1b-S1051 9919-A
    mtDNA (M)
    U5b1e

    Canada United States of America United Kingdom France Ukraine
    I ordered the Full Y Genome test so hopefully that will provide some answers for the 9919 group. Hopefully a few others from the group will eventually order as well. What's interesting (as I mentioned above) is there seems to be more unique slow moving marker characteristics found within U106 than in P312 (at least for mine anyway). It's going to be interesting to see if these mutations are ancestral or something more recent. I couldn't resist..I need to know.

    George

  6. #6
    Registered Users
    Posts
    1,051
    Sex
    Location
    Central United States
    Ethnicity
    Celtic, Goidelic
    Y-DNA (P)
    DF13>FGC5494>FGC5496
    mtDNA (M)
    H11a2a>C12014T

    United States of America Netherlands Isle of Man Scotland Poland Northern Ireland
    George,

    Hey is your kit number 11143? For my records of those L21's testing the Full Y.

    Also, you may have seen my posting of DF13* varieties, includes 9919, where I ran TMRCAs of these and Geography location numbers almost a year ago. It still would be valid info.

    https://docs.google.com/file/d/0By9Y...?usp=drive_web
    148326, FGC-0FW1R, YSID6 & YF3272 R-DF13>FGC5494>*7448>*5496>*5521>*5511>*5539>*5538>* 5508>*5524
     
    Watterson USA GD1/67 & GD3/111, *5508+. GD1ís fatherís sister-23andme pred. 3rd Cous w/ 0.91% DNA shared-3 seg. Largest on Chr1 w/non-Euro admix affirms my NPE paternal Watterson line via aDNA & YDNA. A 2nd pred. 4th cous has same DKA b. 1840's Georgia and MDKA d 1703 IOM. 3rd Cousin FtDNA FF is from the Watterson Ala. *5538+ b. IOM w/ GD6/67 & GD8/111 -SGD3. FGC5539+ a Scot-Ross GD13/111 -SGD8

  7. #7
    Registered Users
    Posts
    846
    Sex
    Y-DNA (P)
    R1b-S1051 9919-A
    mtDNA (M)
    U5b1e

    Canada United States of America United Kingdom France Ukraine
    That's correct - my kit is 11143. Thanks for the link Mark.
    George

  8. #8
    Registered Users
    Posts
    1,051
    Sex
    Location
    Central United States
    Ethnicity
    Celtic, Goidelic
    Y-DNA (P)
    DF13>FGC5494>FGC5496
    mtDNA (M)
    H11a2a>C12014T

    United States of America Netherlands Isle of Man Scotland Poland Northern Ireland
    George, I am very happy we have another 9919 variety which is in the DF13* Club.

    DF13* MJost (148326) z1130-A1-A, DF13* Edgecombe, (186947) z9914-E, DF13* Smith (N55408) z141121 and DF13 Chandler (11143) z9919-A

    These four kits have a 3,405 ybp Intraclade Founder's Modal Age but a coaleascence age around 2,593. A larger bottle neck situation maybe. It will be very interesting to see if 9919s begot any known or new DF13 subclade and or a new branch.

    Using test SNPs and 111markers L21 has a TMRCA of 3,862 with n=1443 Hts, DF13 N=1074 is about 3,479 ybp where they both are not many generations apart, about 13, using 30 years per generation.

    MJost
    Last edited by MJost; 09-30-2013 at 06:24 PM.
    148326, FGC-0FW1R, YSID6 & YF3272 R-DF13>FGC5494>*7448>*5496>*5521>*5511>*5539>*5538>* 5508>*5524
     
    Watterson USA GD1/67 & GD3/111, *5508+. GD1ís fatherís sister-23andme pred. 3rd Cous w/ 0.91% DNA shared-3 seg. Largest on Chr1 w/non-Euro admix affirms my NPE paternal Watterson line via aDNA & YDNA. A 2nd pred. 4th cous has same DKA b. 1840's Georgia and MDKA d 1703 IOM. 3rd Cousin FtDNA FF is from the Watterson Ala. *5538+ b. IOM w/ GD6/67 & GD8/111 -SGD3. FGC5539+ a Scot-Ross GD13/111 -SGD8

  9. #9
    Registered Users
    Posts
    1,051
    Sex
    Location
    Central United States
    Ethnicity
    Celtic, Goidelic
    Y-DNA (P)
    DF13>FGC5494>FGC5496
    mtDNA (M)
    H11a2a>C12014T

    United States of America Netherlands Isle of Man Scotland Poland Northern Ireland
    Quote Originally Posted by George Chandler View Post
    That's correct - my kit is 11143. Thanks for the link Mark.
    George
    George,

    I ran a DF13* variety Fluxus last year and I have pulled the section you are in showing your branch if you are interested. This major branch has some z142021's and -SP's in it.

    https://docs.google.com/file/d/0By9Y...it?usp=sharing

    MJost
    148326, FGC-0FW1R, YSID6 & YF3272 R-DF13>FGC5494>*7448>*5496>*5521>*5511>*5539>*5538>* 5508>*5524
     
    Watterson USA GD1/67 & GD3/111, *5508+. GD1ís fatherís sister-23andme pred. 3rd Cous w/ 0.91% DNA shared-3 seg. Largest on Chr1 w/non-Euro admix affirms my NPE paternal Watterson line via aDNA & YDNA. A 2nd pred. 4th cous has same DKA b. 1840's Georgia and MDKA d 1703 IOM. 3rd Cousin FtDNA FF is from the Watterson Ala. *5538+ b. IOM w/ GD6/67 & GD8/111 -SGD3. FGC5539+ a Scot-Ross GD13/111 -SGD8

  10. #10
    Registered Users
    Posts
    846
    Sex
    Y-DNA (P)
    R1b-S1051 9919-A
    mtDNA (M)
    U5b1e

    Canada United States of America United Kingdom France Ukraine
    Thanks for doing that Mark as it looks really interesting - I'll take a close look tonight.

    I was trying to do an age estimate for someone in the 9919 RecLOH project (kit#74820) in comparison to mine (or the Chandler Group) and I've been having computer glitches. Any chance you could run a quick comparison so I can forward that on to him?

    Thanks
    George

Page 1 of 5 123 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 7
    Last Post: 10-19-2019, 09:30 PM
  2. DF13* (L21>DF13*)
    By vineviz in forum DF13
    Replies: 57
    Last Post: 03-22-2018, 04:03 PM
  3. Free FGC Kit DF13*(9919 RecLOH Project)
    By George Chandler in forum DF13
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 04-01-2014, 07:46 PM
  4. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 10-05-2013, 02:33 AM
  5. Replies: 5
    Last Post: 08-21-2013, 03:07 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •