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Thread: Origin and Distribution of L1c-M357

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    Origin and Distribution of L1c-M357

    Can someone provide me more info on it? There is not much research available on it.

    I am also curious if this map is accurate for its distribution?



    This is what the Russian website suggests about it:

    Present with the highest frequencies in the Kalash in Pakistan - about 23%, at burushey - 12%, as well as Pashtuns - 7%. In India L1c occurs with a frequency of about 2.5% in the north of the country, and only 0.3% in the south. In this haplogroup is in the gene pool of the Caucasus from the Chechens at up to 14%, the Ingush - about 3%, and the Georgians - 1.5%. In the Middle East, found only in northern Iran at the rate of 3%.
    Source:

    http://gentis.ru/info/ydna-tutorial/hg-l/m357

    I do know it's common enough in populations like the Kalash, Baloch, Pashtun (both Afghan and Pakistani) and Burusho

    This spreadsheet is taken from Dienekes blog post on: A rare look at the Y chromosomes of Afghanistan



    Source: http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2012/03...osomes-of.html

    Wikipedia states this on its distribution:

    Found frequently among Burushos, Kalashas, Chechens and Pashtuns, with a moderate distribution among other populations in Pakistan, Georgia, northern Iran, India, the UAE, and Saudi Arabia.
    On an interesting note, I'm sharing this haplogroup with 5 members of my ethnicity on 23andme.
    Last edited by Sapporo; 09-25-2013 at 11:01 PM.

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    I am looking at the Baloutch frequency(n=13) because I was surprised by the absency of R1, I see in
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y-DNA_h...y_ethnic_group

    Baloch IE (Iranian, NW) n=25 R1b 8.0% R1a=28.0% E1b1b=8.0% J=16.0% L=24.0%
    Brahui Dravidian (Northern) n=25 R1a=24.0% J=28.0% G=16.0% L=8.0%


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_L-M20

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    Quote Originally Posted by palamede View Post
    I am looking at the Baloutch frequency(n=13) because I was surprised by the absency of R1, I see in
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y-DNA_h...y_ethnic_group

    Baloch IE (Iranian, NW) n=25 R1b 8.0% R1a=28.0% E1b1b=8.0% J=16.0% L=24.0%
    Brahui Dravidian (Northern) n=25 R1a=24.0% J=28.0% G=16.0% L=8.0%


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_L-M20
    Thanks palamede. I know that most Baloch with Y-DNA haplogroup L are L1c-M357 so I'm curious if I can hypothetically link to the component to the Gedrosia/Baloch component which peaks in them and the Brahui on Gedmatch calculators and thus link it to West Asian Neolithic farmers.

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    Hi Sapporo My maternal grandfathers line is L1c . L1c peaks in northwest of indian subcontinent . It is found in high frequencies among pashtuns and jatts . It seems this line has suffered bottlenecks and was less succesful in expanding out .

    btw the baloch have more L1a than L1c .In the study mentioned by palamede baloch has L1a 5/25 and L1c 1/25

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    Quote Originally Posted by BMG View Post
    Hi Sapporo My maternal grandfathers line is L1c . L1c peaks in northwest of indian subcontinent . It is found in high frequencies among pashtuns and jatts . It seems this line has suffered bottlenecks and was less succesful in expanding out .

    btw the baloch have more L1a than L1c .In the study mentioned by palamede baloch has L1a 5/25 and L1c 1/25


    Hi BMG. My mistake. It seems you're right about the Baloch. Although, apparently it's found at high frequencies among the Chechens? I wonder how that's possible. Also, is L1a found deeper in the subcontinent as well? Also, I agree about the bottleneck. I'm sharing it with 5 members of my ethnoreligious group.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sapporo View Post
    Hi BMG. My mistake. It seems you're right about the Baloch. Although, apparently it's found at high frequencies among the Chechens? I wonder how that's possible. Also, is L1a found deeper in the subcontinent as well? Also, I agree about the bottleneck. I'm sharing it with 5 members of my ethnoreligious group.
    I looked into chechen project in ftdna .All but one L samples are L1c . They might have got there from north pakistan as there were so many mobile groups in central asia in historic times .
    http://www.familytreedna.com/public/...ction=yresults
    I think haplogroup L split in the vicinity of balochistan into L1a and L1c . While L1a expanded south along southwestern coast of india(where it reaches around 15%) L1c got stuck between mountains and deserts .

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    The conventional view is that the Gedrosia component came from West Asia. But I wonder if it originated in NW South Asia or just outside of that region and can be associated with a local y-DNA K line (and possibly South Asian specific variants of mtdna U2) from which y-DNA L originated.

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    I too think the same .Though the Baloch/Gedrosia component is a west eurasian one it isnt necessarily a west asian one . Isnt it similar to ANI or at least a part of it ?
    Also in harappa project the fst distances it is almost equidistant from Caucasian and NE Euro components .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scyth View Post
    Baloch/Gedrosia component exists in populations where y-dna L does not exist. So they cannot be connected.
    The Baloch (one of the three populations Baloch/Gedrosia peaks in) have significant L1a so it's "plausible" they are connected in some manner. In the spreadsheet image I posted above, 61.54% of Baloch samples were L1a. Pashtuns have high levels of L1c-M357 and they also have high levels of the Gedrosia component.

    L1c-M357 is also found in Chechens at a high rate who have 22% of the component. Anyways, it's just speculation.
    Last edited by Sapporo; 10-06-2013 at 04:24 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scyth View Post
    How is it "plausible" though? Baloch/Gedrosia distribution is well beyond this:

     
    The fact that the Gedrosia/Baloch component distribution extends into Iran, the Caucasus, Levant and even Europe matters little. My point is that L1c-M357 and related Y-DNA L subclades like L1a are found at high levels among populations which have 38%+ of the Gedrosia/Baloch component along with one of the three populations it peaks in.

    Also, as BMG mentioned earlier, the clade L1c-M357 suffered bottlenecks and was not successful in expanding outwards of the Northwestern fringes of the subcontinent. Therefore, it could be limited to the few populations it peaks in and others who have substantial amounts of the component in the Northwestern corridor of South Asia. Although, it's found in very low frequencies in other parts of South Asia and to a lesser extent Middle East.
    Last edited by Sapporo; 10-06-2013 at 04:55 AM.

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