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Thread: R-L48 on 23andMe ... Meaning?

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benlevi View Post
    Thanks for this. Please excuse my ignorance, but I’m not entirely sure what it is you’re referencing, there. All I’ve managed to do so far is have my sample sequenced (perhaps crudely?) using 23andMe, and then also ran that 23andMe-output kit through various GedMatch algorithms to see what turns up (always very much Ashkenazi Jewish).

    Is there any chance that my true Y chromosome marker is indeed actually downstream from R-L48 (eg L47x, etc.), or would that have shown up in the 23andMe results...?
    This is the project which would provide you with additional information if you elect to do further testing on your paternal y-DNA line. 23andMe's results come off of a 9 year old reference. Since then a many, many more haplogroups have been identified. For some of them like the ivanhoe cluster, proposals for movements within the last 2000 years are proposed.

    with results like 23andMe it varies with the chip used as to whether a provided haplogroup call is correct. It may be missing calls which can further refine it or it may be picking up a 2nd appearance of the SNP L48. The results are somewhat hit or miss depending on the chip used and the quality of the sample. Make sure you have the other calls, like U106, above L48 to know that 23andMe assigned your result to the correct location.

    Testing at FamilyTreeDNA will help confirm that R-L48 is correct. It would also open up the effort to identify and flesh out a new Ashkenazi haplogroup location.

  2. #12
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    Well my cousin is L-48 result from 23andme, maybe this is how deep they test, and he is from S Wales, and so is his male line, also is surname is Welsh, but this Haplogroup is predominantly a NW Germanic Haplogroup, I think since R1b is so well defined I think almost certainly you will be on a subclade downstream of L-48. Then you have a few options to explore with Next Gen seq companies, one of the most popular is ftdna, if you go much deeper and eventually get a BAM file you can upload it to Yfull, which will show you where your subclade clusters on the tree Good luck.
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  3. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to sgdavies@hotmail.com For This Useful Post:

     Benlevi (03-23-2018),  MacUalraig (10-12-2018)

  4. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by 365465
    if you go much deeper and eventually get a BAM file you can upload it to Yfull, which will show you where your subclade clusters on the tree Good luck.
    Thanks for the tip! I have to admit, I don’t know what a BAM file is, nor “Yfull.” Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

  5. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cofgene View Post
    ... 23andMe's results come off of a 9 year old reference. Since then a many, many more haplogroups have been identified. For some of them like the ivanhoe cluster, proposals for movements within the last 2000 years are proposed.
    Ah, I see, thank you. So am I interpreting you correctly to hear that I may well in fact be somewhere downstream from L48, its just that 23andMes palate of Ydna matches is relatively unrefined, lacking newer subclades?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cofgene View Post
    ...with results like 23andMe it varies with the chip used as to whether a provided haplogroup call is correct. It may be missing calls which can further refine it or it may be picking up a 2nd appearance of the SNP L48. The results are somewhat hit or miss depending on the chip used and the quality of the sample. Make sure you have the other calls, like U106, above L48 to know that 23andMe assigned your result to the correct location.
    Thanks for this. To be honest, I have to admit I have no idea how the technology actually works (nor its potential pitfalls), so I dont actually understand what youre saying here. How far off could 23andMe be? What is a call and how do I check my other calls to ensure Ive been assigned to the correct location, as you say? How do I know what chip was used and how good my sample quality could have been? What is a 2nd appearance of a SNP (eg., of L48)?

    Apologies for my ignorance. Any suggestions for how / where I could better educate myself regarding the relevant moving parts, here?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cofgene View Post
    Testing at FamilyTreeDNA will help confirm that R-L48 is correct. It would also open up the effort to identify and flesh out a new Ashkenazi haplogroup location.
    That sounds appealing. FTDNA does seem remarkably pricey, though. I also have no idea which of the many Y-DNA testing options they offer is the best for these purposes. It seems to range from 37, to 111 markers. What does this mean in practical terms, regarding understanding Y chromosomal provenance? Will more markers enable me to place myself on more refined subclades? ... They seem to have a St Pattys Day sale on, so maybe nows as good a time as DNA Day to purchase?

    Enlightening thoughts on any/all of the above would be most welcome.

    Thank you for your insight!
    Last edited by Benlevi; 03-17-2018 at 02:06 PM.

  6. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benlevi View Post
    Thanks for the tip! I have to admit, I don’t know what a BAM file is, nor “Yfull.” Any insight would be greatly appreciated.
    There is allot of food for thought for you to digest here, and to research. Decide what your objectives are, coupled that with how much money you are prepared to spend, as Next Gen Seq is not cheap.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 365551
    There is allot of food for thought for you to digest here, and to research. Decide what your objectives are, coupled that with how much money you are prepared to spend, as Next Gen Seq is not cheap.
    Good to know. ... Any suggested links to help get some perspective on what’s gained with (various kinds of) additional testing?

  9. #17
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    I also have an R-U106, L48 question. My cousin Fred Z. (Kit #N47901) has tested R-U106 + and L 48+, and L47-, on FTDNA. He is also listed as L-48 on his autosomal test at 23and Me. Fred's (and my) grandfather was born out of wedlock in Switzerland, Canton Berne in the lower Jura mountains in 1856. He was given his mother's family surname Z-------. In the past 11 years I have not been able to find a match in the 'Z' family, until recently when contacted by a 'Z' family member living in Australia. He is only on 23andMe, so I can't compare y chromosomes, but he has the same haplogroup L48, as cousin Fred. (In the autosomal matching these 'Z' person also matches me and my brother as possible 3rd-4th cousins.) And his family originates in the same area of Switzerland in the Bernese Oberland as our ancestors. And, the one 'Z' family descendant here in the US, our real 3rd cousin, BZ has an (old) yDNA designation on 23&Me of R1b1b2a1a1d*. This is what cousin Fred's designation was on 23&me ages ago before the update. I expected that my cousin Fred would have an entirely different y designation from the other male 'Z' family members. I don't know how frequent this haplogroup is in Switzerland, but according to the list on FTDNA there is at least one L48+ (unnamed) in Canton Berne, and a few others throughout Switzerland. But it looks like our grandfather's father was someone closely related. Any comments?

  10. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by R. Walker View Post
    I also have an R-U106, L48 question. My cousin Fred Z. (Kit #N47901) has tested R-U106 + and L 48+, and L47-, on FTDNA. He is also listed as L-48 on his autosomal test at 23and Me. Fred's (and my) grandfather was born out of wedlock in Switzerland, Canton Berne in the lower Jura mountains in 1856. He was given his mother's family surname Z-------. In the past 11 years I have not been able to find a match in the 'Z' family, until recently when contacted by a 'Z' family member living in Australia. He is only on 23andMe, so I can't compare y chromosomes, but he has the same haplogroup L48, as cousin Fred. (In the autosomal matching these 'Z' person also matches me and my brother as possible 3rd-4th cousins.) And his family originates in the same area of Switzerland in the Bernese Oberland as our ancestors. And, the one 'Z' family descendant here in the US, our real 3rd cousin, BZ has an (old) yDNA designation on 23&Me of R1b1b2a1a1d*. This is what cousin Fred's designation was on 23&me ages ago before the update. I expected that my cousin Fred would have an entirely different y designation from the other male 'Z' family members. I don't know how frequent this haplogroup is in Switzerland, but according to the list on FTDNA there is at least one L48+ (unnamed) in Canton Berne, and a few others throughout Switzerland. But it looks like our grandfather's father was someone closely related. Any comments?
    Roughly half of folks who are U106+ are also L48+, so L48 covers a LOT of territory. I would suspect that L48 is relatively common in Switzerland. I believe the biggest issue is simply the fact that not a lot of Swiss folks have done Y-DNA SNP testing.
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  12. #19
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    I now have three R-L48 matches at 23andme out of the 14 males with all 4 UK gps. All three have surnames which peak in YKS/LIN. It isn't a part of the tree I've looked at much, I only have one Kennedy down that way who got a terminal SNP of A656 (off the YSEQ R-L48 panel).
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