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Thread: Ancient I-M253 samples list

  1. #501
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    Quote Originally Posted by deadly77 View Post
    I'd say wait for the data.
    I know. But all this waiting for the data sucks.

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  3. #502
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    Quote Originally Posted by spruithean View Post
    Besides deadly suggesting to wait for the data, because there could be errors, if it holds it could certainly be a wrench in the whole thing. I think the story for I1 is much more interesting and still needs to be fleshed out.
    Certainly adds more layers to the mystery.

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    Quote Originally Posted by oz View Post
    I know. But all this waiting for the data sucks.
    It is what it is. The I1 samples from the Zenczak poster abstract on Academia.edu have been "known about" since 2017 but we have no real data. Not having the raw data had CL63 assigned to I-Z79 (in I2 rather than I1), SVK-A1 assigned to I1b rather than I-FGC21682 (so in I1a rather than I1b), BAL051 being fully I1 or the numerous inaccuracies in the Carlos Quiles blog. Having the raw data lets us look ourselves to determine the real designation.

    But to my earlier point, the Viking preprint dropped in with not very much warning - I knew about it at most two days before it happened. When that came out it dwarfed our previous inventory of I1 samples. And we still don't have the raw data for that.

    I'd agree with Spruithean's point - I think the I1 story is a lot more interesting and diverse compared to the data that we currently have available. I've said so several times earlier in this thread and I'd expect there to be more I1 found in places that may not be expected (and I'm looking forward to it).

    I'd also point out that many subclades of I1 significantly predate Germanic migrations.
    Haplogroup I1 Ancient DNA Samples Map: Hidden Content

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  6. #504
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    Quote Originally Posted by oz View Post
    This I1a1 is from EBA Austria?
    For now it's still uncertain, but if there is an I1 Etruscan and I1a1 in EBA Austria that complicates the theory of all I1 in mainland Europe coming from Germanic migrations doesn't it?
    Personally, I doubt it but we’ll see. If it is valid and it’s really I-L258 it’s probably from a later time period and somehow came to light during the excavations. At least, that’s my guess. Or it’s been read incorrectly.
    Last edited by JMcB; 10-04-2019 at 07:55 PM.
    Paper Trail: 42.25% English, 31.25% Scottish, 12.5% Irish, 6.25% German, 6.25% Italian & 1.5% French. Or: 86% British Isles, 6.25% German, 6.25% Italian & 1.5% French.
    LDNA(c): 86.3% British Isles (48.6% English, 37.7% Scottish & Irish), 7.8% NW Germanic, 5.9% Europe South (Aegean 3.4%, Tuscany 1.3%, Sardinia 1.1%)
    BigY 700: I1-Z140 >I-F2642 >Y1966 >Y3649 >A13241 >Y3647 >A13248 (circa 620 AD) >A13242/YSEQ (circa 765 AD) >FT80854 (circa 1650 AD).

  7. #505
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    They did also label CL63 as I1a3 so maybe they just made a sloppy mistake there which hopefully won't constantly reoccur.
    As to the labeling of I1 without enough snps to make up an actual I1 I don't know why that happens or how that works, is it a matter of coverage quality of the samples or some shit or because it's some dead lineage of I* and what exactly determines that.

  8. #506
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMcB View Post
    Personally, I doubt it but will see. If it is valid and it’s really I-L258 it’s probably from a later time period and somehow came to light during the excavations. At least, that’s my guess. Or it’s been read incorrectly.
    Yeah that's also possible, these papers should provide sufficient evidence for whatever claims they make.

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  10. #507
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    Hopefully, the paper will be here soon. Although, there appears to be some issue with the Y data.

    https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....l=1#post607300
    Last edited by JMcB; 10-04-2019 at 08:23 PM.
    Paper Trail: 42.25% English, 31.25% Scottish, 12.5% Irish, 6.25% German, 6.25% Italian & 1.5% French. Or: 86% British Isles, 6.25% German, 6.25% Italian & 1.5% French.
    LDNA(c): 86.3% British Isles (48.6% English, 37.7% Scottish & Irish), 7.8% NW Germanic, 5.9% Europe South (Aegean 3.4%, Tuscany 1.3%, Sardinia 1.1%)
    BigY 700: I1-Z140 >I-F2642 >Y1966 >Y3649 >A13241 >Y3647 >A13248 (circa 620 AD) >A13242/YSEQ (circa 765 AD) >FT80854 (circa 1650 AD).

  11. #508
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    Quote Originally Posted by oz View Post
    They did also label CL63 as I1a3 so maybe they just made a sloppy mistake there which hopefully won't constantly reoccur.
    As to the labeling of I1 without enough snps to make up an actual I1 I don't know why that happens or how that works, is it a matter of coverage quality of the samples or some shit or because it's some dead lineage of I* and what exactly determines that.
    I've tried to accommodate you several times over previous posts on this thread, but I'm a bit fed up of continuously repeating myself. It's all there in earlier posts on this thread, so go and have a re-read. I've added you to my "ignore list" along with Kaltmeister, so I won't see your posts in future and I won't respond any further. All the best.
    Haplogroup I1 Ancient DNA Samples Map: Hidden Content

  12. #509
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    Quote Originally Posted by deadly77 View Post
    I've tried to accommodate you several times over previous posts on this thread, but I'm a bit fed up of continuously repeating myself. It's all there in earlier posts on this thread, so go and have a re-read. I've added you to my "ignore list" along with Kaltmeister, so I won't see your posts in future and I won't respond any further. All the best.
    Lol
    What the hell are you even talking about? I wasn't even directly talking to you.
    He put me on ignore? If your precious feelings are so fragile feel free to protect them, I don't object.

  13. #510
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    According to the General the sample is suppose to date to:

    “Early Bronze Age (~2,000 BCE). Lech_EBA OBKR_117_d”

    So I-L258 sounds like a mis-read. What it really is, is anyones guess.
    Paper Trail: 42.25% English, 31.25% Scottish, 12.5% Irish, 6.25% German, 6.25% Italian & 1.5% French. Or: 86% British Isles, 6.25% German, 6.25% Italian & 1.5% French.
    LDNA(c): 86.3% British Isles (48.6% English, 37.7% Scottish & Irish), 7.8% NW Germanic, 5.9% Europe South (Aegean 3.4%, Tuscany 1.3%, Sardinia 1.1%)
    BigY 700: I1-Z140 >I-F2642 >Y1966 >Y3649 >A13241 >Y3647 >A13248 (circa 620 AD) >A13242/YSEQ (circa 765 AD) >FT80854 (circa 1650 AD).

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