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Thread: Ancient I-M253 samples list

  1. #341
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    @spruithean

    Maybe I used the wrong word. What you say is what I mean.

    If the medieval period should be considered as the time of the great founder effect, then we have the black death. Current estimates point to loss of two thirds of the population in Sweden during the plague and the years following it.

    Migration period did not affect the Nordics, AFAIK. Except Denmark, perhaps.

  2. #342
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    I-A14097

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    Quote Originally Posted by janan View Post
    @spruithean

    Maybe I used the wrong word. What you say is what I mean.

    If the medieval period should be considered as the time of the great founder effect, then we have the black death. Current estimates point to loss of two thirds of the population in Sweden during the plague and the years following it.

    Migration period did not affect the Nordics, AFAIK. Except Denmark, perhaps.
    I don't think the TMRCA for I1 fits the Medieval period (4600 ybp according to YFull), more likely the Bronze Age (the common star-like growth seen in other haplogroups). I think the majority of our ancient samples will fall into the Medieval category (including Migration period), which so far seems to be the case. Hopefully we can finally get some I1 (not pre-I1) from the right timeframe. Obviously the older pre-I1 samples from the Paleolithic and Neolithic are still part of the same line that branched from I-M170 that gave us modern I1, so they can at least provide some information about this pre-I1 (quasi-I1?) group and the distribution in prehistoric Europe.

    Perhaps, eventually if enough samples roll in, shifting the tree for I1 might result in pre-I1 being named I1 and current I1(M253) being named I1a, or something along those lines, which would then result in the nomenclature changing for I1b and I1c.

    Something like this perhaps:

    I-M170
    - I1 (instead of pre-I1)
    -- I1* (include the lineages of BAL051, SF11, BAB5, RISE175,179,207?)
    -- I1a (current I1)
    --- I1a1 (DF29, current I1a)
    --- I1a2 (Z131, current I1b)
    --- I1a3 (Z17925, current I1c)

    Obviously we don't know the chronology of the 312 SNPs that define modern I1 and this tree above is purely hypothetical, so this is all subject to change.
    Last edited by spruithean; 06-14-2019 at 08:58 PM. Reason: Added details

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