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Thread: Ancient I-M253 samples list

  1. #741
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    Quote Originally Posted by mwauthy View Post
    No problem! I completely understand the prioritization. I’m actually in the process of downloading VK521 right now because it seems the most promising to me. The downloading process is quite slow and tedious. Any advice for how a layman should approach looking at these?
    I've tried downloading the I-Z140 samples - very slow. I've got VK327 and VK363 but Vk357 and VK337 are taking ages. I actually went out for a couple of hours and still not done.

    I can only talk about how I do it - there may be other (perhaps better) ways. I'd advise downloading the IGV from the Broad Institute for viewing the files. The user guides are pretty good. Once you have the file use IGVtools to index the BAM file (most of the time ENA includes a index file but I didn't see one for these files). Make sure the index file is in the same folder as the BAM. Load up the relevant reference genome (hg19 or hg38 - check paper for which one is the right one - most ancient genomes are mapped to hg19) in IGV, load the BAM file, select ChrY and then browse by position per SNP. Use YFull or Genetic Homeland as reference for position of SNPs as they include hg38 and hg19 position while YBrowse and FTDNA just list hg38 position. Sorry that I'm not able to give a detailed step-by-step - unfortunately I really don't have the bandwidth now to go through the details. But this is essentially my approach and it works for me. There is a fair bit of trial and error, but probably you'll learn more by doing it.
    Haplogroup I1 Ancient DNA Samples Map: Hidden Content

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  3. #742
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    Quote Originally Posted by deadly77 View Post
    Ah yes - I am going to be busy man in the near future, but not with analyzing these BAM files. Big project on at my new workplace, and they pay me so that takes priority. I won't have much bandwidth to look at the majority of these anytime soon. I will get through them but my approach to analyzing BAM files is rather manual and as a result is slow. Pribislav seems to be able to this a lot quicker than I do and his analysis is always sound, so he will probably get to it before I do. My priority list is the I-Z140 samples first , then the I-P109 samples and then I'll get to your I-Z2041 and I-Z2040 samples. But don't expect anything from me anytime soon on those four.
    As always, thank you for all of your efforts and also for supplying a link to the paper! When I looked before it appeared inaccessible.
    Last edited by JMcB; 09-16-2020 at 11:57 PM.
    Paper Trail: 42.25% English, 31.25% Scottish, 12.5% Irish, 6.25% German, 6.25% Italian & 1.5% French. Or: 86% British Isles, 6.25% German, 6.25% Italian & 1.5% French.
    LDNA(c): 86.3% British Isles (48.6% English, 37.7% Scottish & Irish), 7.8% NW Germanic, 5.9% Europe South (Aegean 3.4%, Tuscany 1.3%, Sardinia 1.1%)
    BigY 700: I1-Z140 >I-F2642 >Y1966 >Y3649 >A13241 >Y3647 >A13248 (circa 620 AD) >A13242/YSEQ (circa 765 AD) >FT80854 (circa 1650 AD).

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  5. #743
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    This is very exciting! It'll be really interesting to see the autosomal DNA of these samples!

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  7. #744
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    So we finally have the Viking paper! I look forward to watching I1's much deserved discussion of its reign during that era.
    Scandinavian-love structure

    recent and recently discovered Swedish, Danish and Norwegian (many 4th/5th cousins)
    recent East/North German
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    closest modern Sweden2
    closest ancient Sigtuna vik84001

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    VK327 is S12289+ and looks like he's on at least the I-Y8333 branch as he's A1841/Y28952+ with two T reads. So this rules out the branches of myself, JonikW and StoneMeadow for VK327. I'll get a closer look this evening after I finish work.
    Haplogroup I1 Ancient DNA Samples Map: Hidden Content

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    Quote Originally Posted by Salamander View Post
    So my question is: based on all of this, can I probably trace my descent to Leofwine of Normandy, or have I misinterpreted the guidance on years to most recent common ancestor? Or is the fact that I am looking at 67-marker results rather than 111-marker results skewing my interpretation? Also, will I have to test at a higher level (say Y-700), or to put my results into other providers in order to understand this better?
    I had no really close match, but from what I gathered Tip is pretty much useless and unless you have a very close match by STR's, its not reliable. If you really want to know and be sure, also being prepared for the future, with comparisons to ancient DNA and new matches, there is no way around BigY or a similar test. Doesn't mean you get the information for right now, if there is a lack of samples in, but its the only way to go to get to know all the important aspects of your paternal lineage.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Riverman View Post
    I had no really close match, but from what I gathered Tip is pretty much useless and unless you have a very close match by STR's, its not reliable. If you really want to know and be sure, also being prepared for the future, with comparisons to ancient DNA and new matches, there is no way around BigY or a similar test. Doesn't mean you get the information for right now, if there is a lack of samples in, but its the only way to go to get to know all the important aspects of your paternal lineage.
    Thanks for that. I will do the BigY when I can. In case others are interested there were significant occurrences of specific surnames in my 67-marker matches, at the 5, 6, and 7-step levels. Apart from the Claytons, quite a few of Baylor, Phipps, Compton/Crumpton, Hitchcock/Hickok, Tate and Gordon. But only the last two listed Irish antecedents.

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  15. #748
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salamander View Post
    Hi, this is my first post on this forum. Pardon me for joining this thread very late, but I found it very useful and I’d like to tease out one aspect. Maybe it will be helpful for some of the other guests who are having trouble interpreting DNA test results.

    Stone Meadow’s post mentioned his ancestor Leofwine of Normandy. There is an online genealogy which lists Sir Thomas de Clayton born in England around the 1500s as a direct male descendent of his. By chance, Sir Thomas de Clayton appears as the ancestor of a 7-step match of mine in my FTDNA test. So I was excited to see this post because it potentially linked me to a known individual deep into the Middle Ages.

    My FTDNA Y-111 test says I am S1990. My documented direct male genealogy goes back to Ireland but hits a wall around the late 1700s. At the 111-marker level, FTDNA lists only one match for me – an exact match with someone of the same surname as me (King). There are no other matches listed, even at different steps. But at the 67-marker view many more matches appear, and one of those lists Sir Thomas de Clayton as his ancestor.

    FTDNA’s “TiP” says there is an 86 per cent chance of this person and I having a common ancestor within 16 generations (say 600 years?) and a 95 per cent chance within 20 generations (say 1000 years?). At first glance this would appear to suggest there’s a pretty good chance that I also am descended from Leofwine of Normandy.

    However, at the 67-marker level I have a number of closer contacts whose ancestors came from much further afield. These include a 5-step match with someone harking from Neumark in eastern Germany, and a couple of 6-step matches pointing to Sweden. This would tend to suggest that the King and Clayton lines join up further back than Leofwine.

    So my question is: based on all of this, can I probably trace my descent to Leofwine of Normandy, or have I misinterpreted the guidance on years to most recent common ancestor? Or is the fact that I am looking at 67-marker results rather than 111-marker results skewing my interpretation? Also, will I have to test at a higher level (say Y-700), or to put my results into other providers in order to understand this better?
    I would be very wary of a 67 marker match, especially once it becomes quite close to being a low probability of a shared recent common ancestor. I say this because I have several 67 marker matches to individuals with ancestors who originated not too far from where my paternal lineage is believed to have come from. Initially, I would have assumed a recent connection, but Big Y testing has shown that the connection is much further back in time and definitely before the advent of surnames.

    I'm not sure who this Leofwine of Normandy fellow is? The name Leofwine is a rather Old English (Anglo-Saxon) given name, that I wouldn't expect to see in Normandy. Do the various genealogies for the Claytons have good sources and documentation back to this Leofwine?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nibelung View Post
    So we finally have the Viking paper! I look forward to watching I1's much deserved discussion of its reign during that era.
    It's been a fairly long wait for this paper to officially be released, it'll be nice to see some I1 in the discussions now.

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  17. #749
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    Looks like some are appearing on the YFull tree already. Among the I1 samples, they have added VK70 at I-Y6374 (under I-P109) and VK70 at I-Y22923 (under I-M227). Probably will add more in stages and likely best to find by opening up basic level haplogroup and using ctrl+F to search for "VK".
    Haplogroup I1 Ancient DNA Samples Map: Hidden Content

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  19. #750
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    VK327 is negative for PH4523 (2G) which likely rules out I-PH4462 branch and negative for FT166204 (1C) on the I-A4637 branch although that's only a one read SNP and he's no call for the rest of the SNPs on the I-A4637 branch (although negative for A4642 on the branch I-A4638 downstream. Also negative for A7322 (1G), FT124056 (1C) and Y185625 (1G) on the I-Y185625 branch.

    He is positive for BY466/Z44259 which corroborates the A1841/Y28952+. I guess we'll put him at I-Y8334* and he branches off from the other samples at YFull at that point. May check FTDNA's tree later for branches that aren't on YFull.
    Haplogroup I1 Ancient DNA Samples Map: Hidden Content

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