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Thread: Ancient I-M253 samples list

  1. #1
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    Ancient I-M253 samples list

    I'm hoping that a few people here are interested in ancient I1 results. The latest Germanic aDNA paper (behind a paywall at https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...05440318300505) includes an elderly I1 male from Altenerding-Klettham in southern Germany. I haven't accessed the paper but assume this is the male aged 60+ from Altenerding-Klettham, buried with a spatha and other grave goods, who also features in the recent Bavaria elongated skulls paper (no Y DNA data released). We also had two I1 individuals in the recent Langobard study and I may have missed others...
    Has anyone here got an up-to-date list of ancient I1 samples, perhaps with subclades and other useful info? If someone has the data to kick things off, maybe we could post more results on this thread as they are published in future.
    Thanks
    Last edited by JonikW; 03-18-2018 at 01:23 PM.
    Living DNA Cautious mode:
    Wales-related ancestry: 86.8%
    Cornwall: 8%
    North England-related ancestry: 5.2%
    Y line: Peak District, England. Big Y match: Scania, Sweden; TMRCA 1,280 ybp (YFull);
    mtDNA: traces to Glamorgan, Wales
    Mother's Y: traces to Llanvair Discoed, Wales

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  3. #2
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    Thanks for sharing!

    I was unaware that the Langobard samples were I1, I assume this individual in Altenerding-Klettham was an Alemanni?

    I'm not aware of any up-to-date ancient I1 samples and their possible subclades. I hope someone has one!

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    This is what I have so far:

    StoraFörvar11 5500-5250 BC Stora Förvar cave, Stora Karlsö Island Sweden SHG pre-I1-M253 (xL121) Skoglund 2014

    BAB5 5300-4900 BC* Balatonszemes-Bagódomb Hungary LBKT_Neolithic I1-M253 Szécsényi-Nagy 2014

    RISE179 2010-1776 BC Abekĺs I Sweden Nordic_LN I1-M253 Allentoft 2015

    RISE207 1493-1302 BC Angmollan Sweden Nordic_BA I1-M253 Allentoft 2015

    RISE210 1432-1292 BC Ängamöllan Sweden Nordic_BA I1-M253? Allentoft 2015

    RISE175 1395-1132 BC Abekĺs I Sweden Nordic_BA I1-M253 Allentoft 2015

    KO_55 100-300 AD Kowalewko Poland Wielbark_Culture I1a3a1a1a-M253>DF29>Z63>BY151>S2078>S2077>Y2245>L1237 Zenczak 2017

    NO3423 550-650 AD Norton on Tees Great Britain Anglo-Saxon I1-M253 Martiniano 2016

    SZ45 600-650 AD Szolad Hungary Langobard I1a1b1-M253>DF29>Z2336>Z2337>L22 Amorim 2018

    ME_7 1000-1200 AD Markowice Poland Medieval I1a2a2a5-M253>DF29>Z58>Z59>Z2041>Z2040>Z382>Y5384 Zenczak 2017

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    The oldest I-M253 I could find at Jean M's Ancestral Journeys/Ancient Eurasian DNA web site was BAB 5 from Balatonszemes-Bagodomb in Hungary. I don't see an age estimate on it, but it dates to the Neolithic Period and belonged to the LBK Transdanubia culture (LinearBandKeramik).

    Oops! I see Pribislav beat me to it! Sorry. Too slow, I guess.
     


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    Y-DNA: R1b-L21> DF13> Z39589> DF41> FGC5572> BY166> FGC36974> FGC36982> FGC36981

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pribislav View Post
    This is what I have so far:

    StoraFörvar11 5500-5250 BC Stora Förvar cave, Stora Karlsö Island Sweden SHG pre-I1-M253 (xL121) Skoglund 2014

    BAB5 5300-4900 BC* Balatonszemes-Bagódomb Hungary LBKT_Neolithic I1-M253 Szécsényi-Nagy 2014

    RISE179 2010-1776 BC Abekĺs I Sweden Nordic_LN I1-M253 Allentoft 2015

    RISE207 1493-1302 BC Angmollan Sweden Nordic_BA I1-M253 Allentoft 2015

    RISE210 1432-1292 BC Ängamöllan Sweden Nordic_BA I1-M253? Allentoft 2015

    RISE175 1395-1132 BC Abekĺs I Sweden Nordic_BA I1-M253 Allentoft 2015

    KO_55 100-300 AD Kowalewko Poland Wielbark_Culture I1a3a1a1a-M253>DF29>Z63>BY151>S2078>S2077>Y2245>L1237 Zenczak 2017

    NO3423 550-650 AD Norton on Tees Great Britain Anglo-Saxon I1-M253 Martiniano 2016

    SZ45 600-650 AD Szolad Hungary Langobard I1a1b1-M253>DF29>Z2336>Z2337>L22 Amorim 2018

    ME_7 1000-1200 AD Markowice Poland Medieval I1a2a2a5-M253>DF29>Z58>Z59>Z2041>Z2040>Z382>Y5384 Zenczak 2017
    The other I1 Lombard sample was from the cemetery at Collegno, northern Italy, dated 580-630CE in the paper. He was I1a3 Z79 and is labelled as sample ID number CL63.
    From the paper: "Unlike at Szólád, we find evidence of only one other individual (CL63) that is of predominant central/northern ancestry that does not belong to the major kindred unit (though our sampling of this cemetery is not as complete as Szólád)."
    Last edited by JonikW; 03-18-2018 at 03:19 PM. Reason: Bolded up haplogroup
    Living DNA Cautious mode:
    Wales-related ancestry: 86.8%
    Cornwall: 8%
    North England-related ancestry: 5.2%
    Y line: Peak District, England. Big Y match: Scania, Sweden; TMRCA 1,280 ybp (YFull);
    mtDNA: traces to Glamorgan, Wales
    Mother's Y: traces to Llanvair Discoed, Wales

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    Quote Originally Posted by JonikW View Post
    The other I1 Lombard sample was from the cemetery at Collegno, northern Italy, dated 580-630CE in the paper. He was I1a3 Z79 and is labelled as sample ID number CL63.
    From the paper: "Unlike at Szólád, we find evidence of only one other individual (CL63) that is of predominant central/northern ancestry that does not belong to the major kindred unit (though our sampling of this cemetery is not as complete as Szólád)."
    The problem is Z79 is downstream of I2, not I1. So something is not right with CL63, whether they've mistaken haplogroup assignment or SNP.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pribislav View Post
    The problem is Z79 is downstream of I2, not I1. So something is not right with CL63, whether they've mistaken haplogroup assignment or SNP.
    I just realised that myself... So he was either I1a3 or Z79. Has anyone checked the raw files for CL63?
    Living DNA Cautious mode:
    Wales-related ancestry: 86.8%
    Cornwall: 8%
    North England-related ancestry: 5.2%
    Y line: Peak District, England. Big Y match: Scania, Sweden; TMRCA 1,280 ybp (YFull);
    mtDNA: traces to Glamorgan, Wales
    Mother's Y: traces to Llanvair Discoed, Wales

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    Also found this, Zenczak 2017:

    https://www.academia.edu/33791135/20..._DNA_libraries

    "Here, we present the analysis of Y-chromosome obtained from seventeen, not yet reported, ancient male samples excavated from different burial sites in Poland: Kowalewko (Roman Iron Age), Maslomecz (Roman Iron Age), Legowo (early Middle Ages) and Niemcza (early Middle Ages)...

    We successfully assigned haplogroups to sixteen individuals. Eight belonged to haplogroup I1 (I-M253). Three of them belonged to the sub-branch I1a3a1a1a (I-L1237) and one to I1a2a (I-Z59). I1 is the most common haplogroup in present day Scandinavia, and it is found in all places invaded by ancient Germanic tribes and Vikings."

    And this, Harthun 2016:

    https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....l=1#post144929

    These remains from Görzig (Saxony-Anhalt) date from the 4th and 5th centuries. Seven out of the 12 males were I1. No subclades given.
    Living DNA Cautious mode:
    Wales-related ancestry: 86.8%
    Cornwall: 8%
    North England-related ancestry: 5.2%
    Y line: Peak District, England. Big Y match: Scania, Sweden; TMRCA 1,280 ybp (YFull);
    mtDNA: traces to Glamorgan, Wales
    Mother's Y: traces to Llanvair Discoed, Wales

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    I wish some of these samples (notably Hungary, Nordic LN, Nordic BA and Anglo-Saxon at Teesside) had some degree of subclade testing. I'd be curious to see how many were Z140, L22 or some other subclade.

    Looks like a fair chunk of I1 regardless of the subclade is found in areas settled by Germanic tribes or in areas where the eventual Germanic people would appear, not very surprising!
    Last edited by spruithean; 03-18-2018 at 08:20 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by spruithean View Post
    I wish some of these samples (notably Hungary, Nordic LN, Nordic BA and Anglo-Saxon at Teesside) had some degree of subclade testing. I'd be curious to see how many were Z140, L22 or some other subclade.

    Looks like a fair chunk of I1 regardless of the subclade is found in areas settled by Germanic tribes or in areas where the eventual Germanic people would appear, not very surprising!
    Yes, I assume we were responsible for the 30 percent or so of non-Indo European vocabulary in early Germanic languages, when the R1b and R1a peoples joined with us to create "Germanic" cultures.
    Living DNA Cautious mode:
    Wales-related ancestry: 86.8%
    Cornwall: 8%
    North England-related ancestry: 5.2%
    Y line: Peak District, England. Big Y match: Scania, Sweden; TMRCA 1,280 ybp (YFull);
    mtDNA: traces to Glamorgan, Wales
    Mother's Y: traces to Llanvair Discoed, Wales

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