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Thread: Ancient I-M253 samples list

  1. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMcB View Post
    Hello Pribislav,

    Can you give us a little context on who this fellow (US-14) was and how he came to be sampled?

    By the way, I like your avatar!
    From Schleib's Science Supplementary materials:

    Remains from the American Museum of Natural History
    Culturally unidentifiable individuals were selected for destructive sampling based on
    geographical provenience and availability of loose teeth or disarticulated cranial remains.
    The context of the individuals is scarce and restricted to what was written in the
    catalogue available for viewing by request to the museum curator(s). Individual US-14
    (DNA analysis showed this individual to be entirely of European descent) was found at
    Shohola Creek, Indian Cabin Ridge, Pennsylvania, and donated to the museum in the
    1960s.
    He looks to be of European origins and dated to around "1634 - 1662 AD". However that's with a 68% probability. So who knows exactly how old the individual is.
    Y-DNA: I-A14097(Scotland),
    Big Y: I-F2642>Y1966>Y3649>A13241>Y3647>A14097 (1,850 YBP)
    mtDNA: pending (Westeremden, Netherlands)
    Other lines:
    R-M222 x2, R-L21 x2, I-M223, R-S1141, R-U198 & R-U106, mtHg J1c3
    Known ancestry
    Paternal: Britain & Ireland, France and Germany
    Maternal: Netherlands

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  3. #172
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    I was listening to the Insitome podcast in parts over yesterday and today. It doesn't concern ancient I-M253 samples, and the majority of the podcast is about the recent New York Times article on David Reich but I found it interesting as it there's also a fair bit of discussion around ancient DNA sample quality, strategies and approaches to testing ancient DNA and technology used to do so, topics that we have touched on from time to time in this thread, so I think it's worth a listen. Can be found on itunes, etc. or here: https://insitome.libsyn.com/the-new-...on-ancient-dna

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  5. #173
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    While I was discussing SZ45 with YFull, I asked them if they would mind taking a look at NO3423, the Anglo-Saxon from Norton, Teeside. I'd been through this one previously in this thread and managed to place him at I-DF29, rule out some downstream subclades from negative calls, but hadn't found anything positive among a lot of no calls. YFull replied that the quality of this sample is really low, but they provided a list of calls against known SNPs on the I1 section of their tree. The majority SNPs in their report are negative - there are eight positive SNPs. However, I'm fairly sure that these are false positives from the low read - several of them are in conflict with each other, appearing on different branches of the I1 tree and also read negative for phyloequivalent (and more importantly upstream) SNPs. I guess we'll be leaving NO3423 at I-DF29 with more ideas about what he's not than what he is. His subclade lineage is either obscured by the no calls in the BAM file or his Y-chromosome lineage may have died out and he has no descendants that are around today (at least that have tested and in one of the databases).

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  7. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by deadly77 View Post
    While I was discussing SZ45 with YFull, I asked them if they would mind taking a look at NO3423, the Anglo-Saxon from Norton, Teeside. I'd been through this one previously in this thread and managed to place him at I-DF29, rule out some downstream subclades from negative calls, but hadn't found anything positive among a lot of no calls. YFull replied that the quality of this sample is really low, but they provided a list of calls against known SNPs on the I1 section of their tree. The majority SNPs in their report are negative - there are eight positive SNPs. However, I'm fairly sure that these are false positives from the low read - several of them are in conflict with each other, appearing on different branches of the I1 tree and also read negative for phyloequivalent (and more importantly upstream) SNPs. I guess we'll be leaving NO3423 at I-DF29 with more ideas about what he's not than what he is. His subclade lineage is either obscured by the no calls in the BAM file or his Y-chromosome lineage may have died out and he has no descendants that are around today (at least that have tested and in one of the databases).
    Too bad, it would have been nice to have had a good quality and a somewhat in-depth branch of I1 for an Anglo-Saxon, especially one that might predate the Norse kings in Northumbria. Although NO3423's date range ends with him possibly being alive during the Norse era. Hopefully some new studies will feature some Anglo-Saxons and Danelaw people, and perhaps have some good Y-DNA samples.

    I can't say I'm surprised that he is most likely I-DF29 though, that is the most common branch of I1. I guess we'll never know if he was of the more Scandinavian clusters of I1 or the more West Germanic clusters... Oh well.
    Y-DNA: I-A14097(Scotland),
    Big Y: I-F2642>Y1966>Y3649>A13241>Y3647>A14097 (1,850 YBP)
    mtDNA: pending (Westeremden, Netherlands)
    Other lines:
    R-M222 x2, R-L21 x2, I-M223, R-S1141, R-U198 & R-U106, mtHg J1c3
    Known ancestry
    Paternal: Britain & Ireland, France and Germany
    Maternal: Netherlands

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  9. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by spruithean View Post
    Too bad, it would have been nice to have had a good quality and a somewhat in-depth branch of I1 for an Anglo-Saxon, especially one that might predate the Norse kings in Northumbria. Although NO3423's date range ends with him possibly being alive during the Norse era. Hopefully some new studies will feature some Anglo-Saxons and Danelaw people, and perhaps have some good Y-DNA samples.

    I can't say I'm surprised that he is most likely I-DF29 though, that is the most common branch of I1. I guess we'll never know if he was of the more Scandinavian clusters of I1 or the more West Germanic clusters... Oh well.
    May be worth keeping an eye out for results from the Repton skeletons. I was listening to this podcast recently https://play.acast.com/s/dansnowshis...arman?autoplay where Cat Jarman says that they are currently doing some DNA analysis. She says "We haven’t got the results just yet, but I’m working with a team at the University of California, Santa Cruz and the Max Planck Institute in Jena." and also "We’re doing full genome-wide sequencing with the ancient DNA to get as much information as we can about ancestry and things like family relationships." - there's an edited transcript here https://www.historyhit.com/discoveri...iking-remains/

    So, definitely some positives there - sounds like whole genome sequencing and with almost 300 skeletons to choose from, there may be some good ones.

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  11. #176
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    I'm really looking forward to the Repton results. It should be interesting stuff. I really do wonder how many of the ancient individuals were born in Britain and how many migrated from Scandinavia or elsewhere.
    Y-DNA: I-A14097(Scotland),
    Big Y: I-F2642>Y1966>Y3649>A13241>Y3647>A14097 (1,850 YBP)
    mtDNA: pending (Westeremden, Netherlands)
    Other lines:
    R-M222 x2, R-L21 x2, I-M223, R-S1141, R-U198 & R-U106, mtHg J1c3
    Known ancestry
    Paternal: Britain & Ireland, France and Germany
    Maternal: Netherlands

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  13. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by spruithean View Post
    I'm really looking forward to the Repton results. It should be interesting stuff. I really do wonder how many of the ancient individuals were born in Britain and how many migrated from Scandinavia or elsewhere.
    Perhaps a bigger discussion in a later paper will follow, with similar to what we saw from the Ancient Icelandic genomes paper with regard to autosomal DNA comparison to populations and the strontium isotope ratio in teeth to determine where they grew up, which will be interesting reading.

    There is a short mention in Cat Jarman's paper in Antiquity (appears to be open access) https://www.cambridge.org/core/journ...B43096A37985EE where it says:

    "Strontium and oxygen isotope analysis of tooth enamel from these two individuals has demonstrated that they both grew up in a region commensurate with values expected from southern Scandinavia (Budd et al. 2004)." and there's also a bit of discussion in the Antiquity paper about grave goods (especially dated coins) while the main part of the paper is a recalibration of the original dataing estimate based on a marine diet.

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  15. #178
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    Hunter Provyn has added a Ancient DNA viewer to his Mygrations/Phylogeographer website, so you can visualize the locations of some of the ancient DNA findings on a map. The I1 samples are here: https://phylogeographer.com/ancient-dna-viewer/?I1

    It appears to include five of the ancient Iceland samples; the Anglo-Saxon NO3423 from Norton, Teeside, England; two of the Bavarian samples from the elongated skulls paper (AED246 and STR486) and the two Longobard cemetery samples CL63 at Collegno and SZ45 at Szólád. The latter is currently in the wrong position - the fault is mine. I had added several of the more confident ancient samples to the I1 supplemental spreadsheet. mistakenly used the same value for latitude and longitude (46.28333333) which puts the location as shown in Phylogeographer near the Capsian Sea while the correct value should be latitude 46.28333333 and longitude 17.85 at Szólád in the Somogy County in present day Hungary, about 5 km south of Lake Balaton. Should be corrected in the future.

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  17. #179
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    Hi

    I receive my results of Yfull but after some analyze (I am not an expert) but I am surprise of
    some results:

    I am A6397 but I am negative tested S6402 !

    It's possible to be positive under a branch of S6402 but negative S6402 ?

    Because I have some STR variants (private mutations) shared with *** and ** (mutation rate)
    of S6402.

    Other surprise STR distant match – about 29 matchs
    But the most close distant match is downstream under S6402

    position 1
    495 tested – 31 diff ---------------- 0,063% - A6469 (Sweden) – under S6402

    position 4
    505 tested – 38 diff -------------------0,075% - Y18386 (Sweden) – under S6402

    position 6
    My same A6397 SNP is more far of STR distance match
    495 tested – 37 diff ------------------0,075% - A6397

    Between 1 to 6 position are Sweden, Denmark, Scotland, lsle of Man and Germany between
    1425 – 1700 periode AD.

  18. #180
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    I-A6397 is upstream of S6402. You don't descend from the man who first had S6402.

    https://www.yfull.com/tree/I-A6397/
    Y-DNA: I-A14097(Scotland),
    Big Y: I-F2642>Y1966>Y3649>A13241>Y3647>A14097 (1,850 YBP)
    mtDNA: pending (Westeremden, Netherlands)
    Other lines:
    R-M222 x2, R-L21 x2, I-M223, R-S1141, R-U198 & R-U106, mtHg J1c3
    Known ancestry
    Paternal: Britain & Ireland, France and Germany
    Maternal: Netherlands

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