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Thread: More U106+ found in Bavarian medieval samples

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    More U106+ found in Bavarian medieval samples

    According to BAM files of samples found in this paper: http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2018/03/06/1719880115 I figured I'd post about it here as a thread if case some of you guys don't troll the aDNA section as often as I do (all the time haha).

    Currently sample AED 106 who clusters autosomally near Saxony in a K36 PCA is so far U106+. More importantly (at least to my group as I'm Z306+) is ALH1 who is U106+, Z381+, Z156+, and Z306+. He clusters autosomally between Friesland, Norway and Denmark. AED 106 was buried with the typical Germanic older adult male grave goods (he was listed as 60+ in age) with a Spatha, bag, belt, vessels, glass. ALH1 I assume was too, but his grave was disturbed/robbed - he was also an older adult male aged 50-60.

    These remains generally date to about late 400s - early 500s AD.

    The Z306+ result is important because it's the first Z156 found in Migration Era remains ;-). Also down stream of Z306 is the DF98 group - aka the House of Wettin group which splits into S1911 and S18823/Wettin side.

    Cheers!
    Last edited by Bollox79; 03-22-2018 at 04:11 AM.
    Y-DNA: 4th GGF Johann Adam Weber/Weaver born 1784 in Pennsylvania. Sergeant, US 17th Inf, War of 1812: R1b-U106-DF98-S1911-S1894/S1900-S4004... FGC14817 shared with 6drif-3 - one of the "Headless" Roman Gladiator/Soldiers! Father Captain Martin Weber b. 1739 in Hesse(?), Germany, d. 1804 Dauphin, PA.

    mtDNA: 3rd GGM Bridget O'Danagher b. 1843 Lorrha/Dorrha, Ireland - T2b2b - Pagan Migrant Icelander SSG-A3 (grave 4) - Sķlastašir in Eyjafjaršarsżsla, North Iceland is T2b2b.

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    Remember the results from the 7th century Frankish burial at Ergolding in Bavaria a few years ago?

    Unfortunately, that was before ancient NGS testing. They got some y-dna STR's. The guys buried in one part of the cave with weapons and chain mail (I'm working from memory here) had U106-looking haplotypes. There were one or two weaponless burials in another part that looked like G2a, as I recall.

    It would be nice if they could go back and NGS test those samples.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rms2 View Post
    Remember the results from the 7th century Frankish burial at Ergolding in Bavaria a few years ago?

    Unfortunately, that was before ancient NGS testing. They got some y-dna STR's. The guys buried in one part of the cave with weapons and chain mail (I'm working from memory here) had U106-looking haplotypes. There were one or two weaponless burials in another part that looked like G2a, as I recall.

    It would be nice if they could go back and NGS test those samples.
    Okay, I went and looked back a little, without dragging out a magnifying glass. The men buried together in the wooden burial chamber labeled by the researchers as Grave 244 were the ones who were tested. Skeletons 244A, 244B, and 244C were all R1b (and possibly U106). They are the ones from the western part of the burial chamber, who had weapons, armor and spurs.

    Skeletons 244D, 244E, and 244F did not have armor, weapons or spurs, but they came from the eastern end of the burial chamber, which appears to have been plundered at some time, so who knows what they might have had. 244D was R1b (possibly U106). 244E and F were both G2a.

    Man! That paper came out in 2009! Seems like yesterday to me. Phew! Time flies when you're having fun!
    Last edited by rms2; 03-26-2018 at 10:40 PM.

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    So what is the Y-haplogroup breakdown of all the individuals in these graves? This is certainly fascinating! Seems there is a decent amount of ancient R-U106 lately.

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    Quote Originally Posted by spruithean View Post
    So what is the Y-haplogroup breakdown of all the individuals in these graves? This is certainly fascinating! Seems there is a decent amount of ancient R-U106 lately.
    Well, at Ergolding, four were R1b (possibly U106), and three of them had weapons, armor and spurs. Two other skeletons were G2a.

    I know there was also a paper recently on some Lombard burials in Italy and Hungary, and some of those skeletons were R1b-U106, which was confirmed by SNP testing.

    Understanding 6th-Century Barbarian Social Organization and Migration through Paleogenomics
    Last edited by rms2; 03-26-2018 at 11:01 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rms2 View Post
    Well, at Ergolding, four were R1b (possibly U106), and three of them had weapons, armor and spurs. Two other skeletons were G2a.

    I know there was also a paper recently on some Lombard burials in Italy and Hungary, and some of those skeletons were R1b-U106, which was confirmed by SNP testing.

    Understanding 6th-Century Barbarian Social Organization and Migration through Paleogenomics
    Ah, okay. I was curious as to whether the results from Bavaria and elsewhere from these same time periods was overwhelmingly R-U106 or if there were any Germanic-speaking associated haplogroups found in the sites.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rms2 View Post
    Remember the results from the 7th century Frankish burial at Ergolding in Bavaria a few years ago?

    Unfortunately, that was before ancient NGS testing. They got some y-dna STR's. The guys buried in one part of the cave with weapons and chain mail (I'm working from memory here) had U106-looking haplotypes. There were one or two weaponless burials in another part that looked like G2a, as I recall.

    It would be nice if they could go back and NGS test those samples.
    Based upon the limited STRs the results pointed towards Z8 or Z326..... funding probably could be obtained to get better sequencing for the U106 guy if the original authors could consider updating their results in the context of current autosomal and y/mt haplogroup research.

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    Quote Originally Posted by spruithean View Post
    Ah, okay. I was curious as to whether the results from Bavaria and elsewhere from these same time periods was overwhelmingly R-U106 or if there were any Germanic-speaking associated haplogroups found in the sites.
    There were other haplogroups among the Lombards apparently, but I haven't followed that closely.

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    Quote Originally Posted by spruithean View Post
    Ah, okay. I was curious as to whether the results from Bavaria and elsewhere from these same time periods was overwhelmingly R-U106 or if there were any Germanic-speaking associated haplogroups found in the sites.
    About 50% from Bavaria are U106 according to what Bollox posted here.

    Other haplogroups are I1, I2a, and G2a.

    Once an expert analyzes the files then the most downstream SNP can be determined.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ArmandoR1b View Post
    About 50% from Bavaria are U106 according to what Bollox posted here.

    Other haplogroups are I1, I2a, and G2a.

    Once an expert analyzes the files then the most downstream SNP can be determined.
    Yep what Armando said! He and I have been converting/processing the BAMs for the Bavarian guys with BAM analysis kit and Armando compared some of the results to what Rocca has found etc... seems to be good for the upstream SNPs at least and around U106... and a few downstream perhaps. Also user 167273 has processed some of these BAM files!

    I'll try to summarize the newer migration era U106 results here:

    Bavarian remains

    AED 106 - U106+, Z156+ and possibly Z306: 60+ aged male buried with spatha, belt, bag, vessel, glass dated to about 480 - 510 AD
    AED 92 - U106+ (didn't find any downstream per the BAM AK) 20-30 aged male buried with spatha, seax, lance, shield, belt, bag. These two remains were at Alternerding cemetery and from what I read on the early phase 1 (these graves are in that phase - aed92 is mentioned in the paper - only guy to have that weapon set) these are "founder's" graves or early graves and aed106 and aed92 are most likely kin? as they tended to bury in defined groups of related (?) individuals.

    ALH 1 - U106+, Z156+ and possibly Z305 - Altheim - 50-60 age male with disturbed/robbed grave - this is a high quality sample (bam file is 12.8 gb) so maybe Alex or someone can confirm the downstream SNPs or find more? This grave listed as non-dateable lack of grave goods but ALH 2 and 3 and 10 carbon dated in the 300s-400s maybe 510 AD.

    STR 316 - U106+ - male aged 40-60 buried with belt, bag, vessel - dated to about 480-510 AD

    STR 393 - U106+ male aged 40-55 buried with a spatha - dated to about 460-530 AD

    I have only done some research on the Alternerding cemetery (samples AED) so I need to look up some stuff on the other cemeteries (ALH and STR).
    Last edited by Bollox79; 03-27-2018 at 01:26 AM.
    Y-DNA: 4th GGF Johann Adam Weber/Weaver born 1784 in Pennsylvania. Sergeant, US 17th Inf, War of 1812: R1b-U106-DF98-S1911-S1894/S1900-S4004... FGC14817 shared with 6drif-3 - one of the "Headless" Roman Gladiator/Soldiers! Father Captain Martin Weber b. 1739 in Hesse(?), Germany, d. 1804 Dauphin, PA.

    mtDNA: 3rd GGM Bridget O'Danagher b. 1843 Lorrha/Dorrha, Ireland - T2b2b - Pagan Migrant Icelander SSG-A3 (grave 4) - Sķlastašir in Eyjafjaršarsżsla, North Iceland is T2b2b.

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