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Thread: Ashkenazi I1

  1. #1

    Ashkenazi I1

    Hey,

    I'll keep this simple - I am Ashkenazi, Y DNA I1 from 23andme (could this be wrong? Probably not), no evidence of recent conversions either genealogically or from 23andme.

    How can I find out where this Y DNA I1 is from? Which test do I need to order? It clearly isn't from the Middle East, and my family is really interested in finding out where it comes from.

    Many thanks!

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  3. #2
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    Download your raw data from 23andme, and try a ydna utility to verify
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  5. #3
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    There is I1 listed on here, but if you want to know more about your Y-line, I would perhaps test with FTDNA.

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  7. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Pylsteen View Post
    There is I1 listed on jewishdnadotnet, but if you want to know more about your Y-line, I would perhaps test with FTDNA.
    Is it possible that this branch is originally Sephardic? Like R1b-Ivanhoe, which is now confirmed to have become Jewish amongst Sephardim, this Y DNA I1 (L338+) seems to originate from the UK (in this case from the Northern Irish and Western Scottish, corresponding the Nordtvedt's AABB group). Also, a confirmed Ashkenazi (Aronovitz, from Romania) belongs to this Y DNA (I1 L338+) and, supposedly, there are family rumours of Sephardic ancestry on that line. This is not the case for me, as far as I know I am fully Ashkenazi, but I have observed that almost all the non-Middle Eastern Ashkenazi Y DNA seems to have come from Sephardim.

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  9. #5
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    Perhaps your direct paternal ancestor was of Northern European origin and he or a descendant converted to Judaism? Perhaps that is how the Northern European haplogroup I1-L338 found its way into an Ashkenazi family?
    Y-DNA: I-A14097(Scotland),
    Big Y: I-F2642>Y1966>Y3649>A13241>Y3647>A14097 (1,850 YBP)
    mtDNA: pending (Westeremden, Netherlands)
    Other lines:
    R-M222 x2, R-L21 x2, I-M223, R-S1141, R-U198 & R-U106, mtHg J1c3
    Known ancestry
    Paternal: Britain & Ireland, France and Germany
    Maternal: Netherlands

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  11. #6
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    Funnily enough Razib Khan just posted this. We don't know yet whether you are L338 but you show that the European flow into the Ashkenazi population was at least on one occasion through the male line. Keep us updated with what you uncover next and good luck.
    https://www.gnxp.com/WordPress/2018/...dieval-europe/
    Last edited by JonikW; 03-23-2018 at 11:37 PM. Reason: Accuracy
    Living DNA Cautious mode:
    South Wales Border-related ancestry: 86.8%
    Cornwall: 8%
    Cumbria-related ancestry: 5.2%
    Y line: Peak District, England. Big Y match: Scania, Sweden; TMRCA 1,280 ybp (YFull);
    mtDNA: traces to Glamorgan, Wales, 18th century. Mother's Y line (Wales): R-L21 L371

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  13. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pylsteen View Post
    There is I1 listed on here, but if you want to know more about your Y-line, I would perhaps test with FTDNA.
    I agree with Pylsteen. You just don't have enough information right now to project anything. I am no Y-DNA expert, but I'm thinking a Y-37 or better, a Y-67 would be a good level to test. You would likely find you some possible connections within the genealogical time frame which might merit investigation and further testing.

    Though I am not Ashkenazi (but I am an I1 ) , I did get past a brick wall in my paternal line a couple of hundred years back with Y-DNA testing of that level.

    Good luck. Sounds interesting and I hope you will keep us updated.

    Jack
    Last edited by C J Wyatt III; 03-24-2018 at 02:53 AM.

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  15. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonikW View Post
    Funnily enough Razib Khan just posted this. We don't know yet whether you are L338 but you show that the European flow into the Ashkenazi population was at least on one occasion through the male line. Keep us updated with what you uncover next and good luck.
    https://www.gnxp.com/WordPress/2018/...dieval-europe/
    I'll say it again: there are people of "full Ashkenazi descent" like my father who most certainly show elevated Northwest European (or maybe Central European?) admixture. These things are to be expected in a group whose modern ethnogenesis revolves around different levels of admixture with somewhat-related groups.

    I predict that once we get some aDNA from medieval Jewish graves in Central and Eastern Europe, a genetic tapestry as interesting as the one from the recent Bavarian study will be revealed.
    Last edited by Eihwaz; 03-24-2018 at 09:21 PM.

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  17. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eihwaz View Post
    I'll say it again: there are people of "full Ashkenazi descent" like my father who most certainly show elevated Northwest European (or maybe Central European?) admixture. These things are to be expected in a group whose modern ethnogenesis revolves around different levels of admixture with somewhat-related groups.

    I predict that once we get some aDNA from medieval Jewish graves in Central and Eastern Europe, a genetic tapestry as interesting as the one from the recent Bavarian study will be revealed.
    That would be truly fascinating. Let's hope we see some aDNA from the old Jewish communities of Europe sooner rather than later. Surely begging for a proper study.
    Living DNA Cautious mode:
    South Wales Border-related ancestry: 86.8%
    Cornwall: 8%
    Cumbria-related ancestry: 5.2%
    Y line: Peak District, England. Big Y match: Scania, Sweden; TMRCA 1,280 ybp (YFull);
    mtDNA: traces to Glamorgan, Wales, 18th century. Mother's Y line (Wales): R-L21 L371

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  19. #10
    So not an update as to my own Y DNA I1, but just to the Ashkenazi I1 generally - the closest branch by far is Norwegian, and it appears whoever it was converted/raped/whatever form of fucking it ended up being sometime near the 7th century AD.

    Now, how does this happen? This is too early even for the Viking Age, in fact Rome only fell 2 centuries before. Is this really from some kind of Germanic barbarian? Or is there just missing data here, and while the tmrca with the Norwegian (and closest so far) branch is correct, there is actually a closer branch that hasn't yet been tested. Is there even any way to tell? If this Y DNA has been Jewish for over a millenium, how are there so few Ashkenazi Y DNA I1s then?

    Here is the data (Polish and Romanian branches are actually Ashkenazi - I have checked and am 100% sure of this. This appears to be the only Ashkenazi branch.): https://www.yfull.com/tree/I-Y12329/

    Much appreciated!
    Last edited by Ethereal; 04-02-2018 at 11:42 PM.

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