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Thread: Central and South Asian DNA Paper

  1. #831
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    Quote Originally Posted by talljimmy0 View Post
    It was obvious having that much steppe would only occur in the Iron Age when long distance mobility was greatly improved. We are most likely seeing Scythian groups integrated in the Mannean and Median armies. The Neo Babylonians called them Umman Manda (meaning men from who knows where) because they had no idea where these horse riding warriors came from, perhaps they were very fair skinned, so they were able to make raids but not stay long in Mesopotamia.
    The female with 50% steppe admix is definitely from the Bronze Age. C14-dated to the Catacomb period.

    We're talking about the male here with 15% steppe admix and Z2103.

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  3. #832
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    Quote Originally Posted by talljimmy0 View Post
    It was obvious having that much steppe would only occur in the Iron Age when long distance mobility was greatly improved. We are most likely seeing Scythian groups integrated in the Mannean and Median armies. The Neo Babylonians called them Umman Manda (meaning men from who knows where) because they had no idea where these horse riding warriors came from, perhaps they were very fair skinned, so they were able to make raids but not stay long in Mesopotamia.
    The female with 50% steppe admix is definitely from the Bronze Age. C14-dated to the Catacomb period.

    We're talking about the male here with 15% steppe admix and Z2103.

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  5. #833
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    R1b-U152 (Alsace)
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    T2a1a

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    Quote Originally Posted by Generalissimo View Post
    The female with 50% steppe admix is definitely from the Bronze Age. C14-dated to the Catacomb period.

    We're talking about the male here with 15% steppe admix and Z2103.
    Right.... so the BA gal is still the most interesting IMO...

    Catacomb actually does provide an equally good fit as Afanasievo and Yamnaya_Samara (~2.04%)

    "sample": "Test1:Hajji_Firuz_BA",
    "fit": 2.0389,
    "Catacomb": 54.17,
    "Anatolia_ChL": 25.83,
    "Kura-Araxes_Kalavan": 13.33,
    "Hajji_Firuz_ChL": 6.67,


    Hmmm.... the fact that all the best fits involve Kura-Araxes-related ancestry seems to indicate these people definitely plowed right thru the Azeri lowlands. They did not, for example, skirt along the eastern edges of the Caspian Sea as the Indo-Iranians likely did.

    I still think this BA gal is from the Gutians, Lullubi, or some other extinct IE branch. I don't think Armenian could have arrived until at least several hundred years later than this C14 dating, and I believe the evidence for the "Balkan" origin (Suvorovo/Cernavoda) of the Anatolian branch is most convincing, with an entry into Anatolia via Thrace and not thru the Caucasus.

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  7. #834
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    H4a1-T152C!

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    The caution I've previously pointed out about Hajji Firuz sample I2327:

    Regarding the samples from the Hajji Firuz site, the authors already threw out sample I4243 because radiocarbon testing dated it to 2465-2286 cal BCE. The reason why it's relevant is because it was found in burial unit F11 which produced samples I4349 (5887-5724 cal BCE) and I4351 (6056-5894 cal BCE). Z2103+ sample I2327 is labeled as being from Phase F-G, which according to their classification scheme should be older than these other samples (Phase A3). Counter intuitively, they chose to label it with a older age of 5900-5500 BCE. So obviously some caution is justified here.
    Last edited by R.Rocca; 03-11-2019 at 11:34 PM.
    Paternal: R1b-U152 >> L2 >> FGC10543, Pietro della Rocca, b. 1559, Agira, Sicily, Italy
    Maternal: H4a1-T152C!, Maria Coto, b. ~1864, Galicia, Spain
    Mother's Paternal: J1+ FGC4745/FGC4766+ PF5019+, Gerardo Caprio, b. 1879, Caposele, Avellino, Campania, Italy
    Father's Maternal: T2b-C150T, Francisca Santa Cruz, b.1916, Garganchon, Burgos, Spain
    Paternal Great (x3) Grandfather: R1b-U106 >> L48 >> CTS2509, Filippo Ensabella, b.~1836, Agira, Sicily, Italy

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  9. #835
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    This result is a huge middle finger to all those desperadoes out there who were using that sample to argue for the origins of Yamnaya in Iran.

    I'll have some fun with it once all the details are officially released.
    Last edited by Generalissimo; 03-11-2019 at 08:59 PM.

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