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Thread: Central and South Asian DNA Paper

  1. #91
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    After reading the paper(but not Supplementary materials):

    1. We need corresponding paper for Caucasus or at the very least Maykop data.

    2. There is no data for Central Asian hunter-gatherers. AFAIK Mesolithic sample from Kyrgyzstan is being studied in Germany. I hope it will be available soon.

    3. Why they dropped Botai samples? Generalissimo mentioned that they were dropped.

    4. No Y-DNA of West Siberian hunter-gatherers.

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  3. #92
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    jeanL - the date for I2327 is from the archaeological layer, not directly by radiocarbon. One of the other 6 samples from this site, in a grave with 2 Neolithic samples, turned out to be an intrusive Bronze Age burial.

    Quote Originally Posted by ADW_1981 View Post
    huh? Neolithic turned out to be bronze age pushed the TMRCA back? Isn't that backwards? Do we have an update here? Z2103 seems like a legitimate result from Iran or Azerbaijan, I'm just less convinced on the context.
    I mean it pushes back the TMRCA if R1b-Z2103 turns out to be 7500+ years old. The Bronze Age sample was a female, I4243; but she was an outlier autosomally.
    Last edited by Megalophias; 04-01-2018 at 03:31 AM.

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  5. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by ADW_1981 View Post
    Just suggesting that the genetic profile could resemble local ones after a few generations. I would agree the dating is possibly wrong considering there are some other mistakes in the spreadsheets.
    Well, thanks. You might have not noticed me but I have been around for a while. So no need to explain these matters to me. Certainly not if they are from different periods and have over 4000 years in between. All the samples from this site seem almost identical autosomally, from what I can see that they have published.

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  7. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by rozenfeld View Post

    4. No Y-DNA of West Siberian hunter-gatherers.
    Could this be the Q1a population?
    YDNA: R1b-BY50830 Stepney, London, UK George Wood b. 1782 English <-> Bavarian cluster
    maternal-gf YDNA: ?? Gurr, James ~1740, Smarden, Kent, England.
    maternal-gm YDNA: R1b-P311+ Beech, John Richard b. 1780, Lewes, England
    maternal-ggf YDNA R1b-U106 Thomas, Edward b 1854, Sittingbourne, Kent
    paternal-ggf YDNA: R1b-Z17901. Gould, John Somerset England 1800s.
    paternal-ggf YDNA: R1b-L48. Scott, William Hamilton Ireland(?) 1800s

    other:
    Welch: early 1800s E-M84 Kent, England.

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  9. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by ADW_1981 View Post
    Could this be the Q1a population?
    Could be. But I am not an expert, so wouldn't speculate.

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  11. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Megalophias View Post
    jeanL - the date for I2327 is from the archaeological layer, not directly by radiocarbon. One of the other 6 samples from this site, in a grave with 2 Neolithic samples, turned out to be an intrusive Bronze Age burial.
    Well; it seems that I2327 is not autosomally different from the other Neolithic samples as it too lacks Steppe Ancestry. I would expect it to have some Steppe Ancestry if it were a Bronze Age genome with R1b-Z2103; yet it doesn't. This lends more credibility to its dating being correct.

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  13. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeanL View Post
    Well; it seems that I2327 is not autosomally different from the other Neolithic samples as it too lacks Steppe Ancestry. I would expect it to have some Steppe Ancestry if it were a Bronze Age genome with R1b-Z2103; yet it doesn't. This lends more credibility to its dating being correct.
    Well, given the importance of this sample, I hope they will radiocarbon date it to dissolve the doubts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jeanL View Post
    Well; it seems that I2327 is not autosomally different from the other Neolithic samples as it too lacks Steppe Ancestry. I would expect it to have some Steppe Ancestry if it were a Bronze Age genome with R1b-Z2103; yet it doesn't. This lends more credibility to its dating being correct.
    Well, we also saw Z2103 in chalcolithic Ukraine with no CHG so it's really hard to say. I'd still hedge my bet that R1 falls on the WHG-EHG spectrum. It's rather clear that this group practiced heavy exogamy which was probably not exclusive to their male lineage. Yet we should not throw all our eggs into the admixture basket.
    YDNA: R1b-BY50830 Stepney, London, UK George Wood b. 1782 English <-> Bavarian cluster
    maternal-gf YDNA: ?? Gurr, James ~1740, Smarden, Kent, England.
    maternal-gm YDNA: R1b-P311+ Beech, John Richard b. 1780, Lewes, England
    maternal-ggf YDNA R1b-U106 Thomas, Edward b 1854, Sittingbourne, Kent
    paternal-ggf YDNA: R1b-Z17901. Gould, John Somerset England 1800s.
    paternal-ggf YDNA: R1b-L48. Scott, William Hamilton Ireland(?) 1800s

    other:
    Welch: early 1800s E-M84 Kent, England.

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  19. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by ADW_1981 View Post
    Well, we also saw Z2103 in chalcolithic Ukraine with no CHG so it's really hard to say. I'd still hedge my bet that R1 falls on the WHG-EHG spectrum. It's rather clear that this group practiced heavy exogamy which was probably not exclusive to their male lineage. Yet we should not throw all our eggs into the admixture basket.
    It's only really hard to explain if the dating coming from yFull is taken at face value. If R1b-Z2103 is older than say 7500 ybp then there is plenty of time for the line to go to Iran and for some of it sub-branches to stay in Europe. In fact right now we have a Ukranian R1b-Z2103 dated to 2800 BCE with EHG-WHG; we have Yamnaya R1b-Z2103 dated to 3300 BCE with a mixture of CHG-EHG and minor WHG/AN. Now we have this Iranian sample dated to 5500 BCE with a mixture of CHG+AN. This shows that R1b-Z2103 is a lot older than previously thought; only then can it actually have enough time to lose its autosomal components to drift. If R1b-Z2103 formed only in 6200 ybp then there is no way for it to show the vastly different autosomal profiles that it is showing.

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