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Thread: Central and South Asian DNA Paper

  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by jeanL View Post
    It's only really hard to explain if the dating coming from yFull is taken at face value. If R1b-Z2103 is older than say 7500 ybp then there is plenty of time for the line to go to Iran and for some of it sub-branches to stay in Europe. In fact right now we have a Ukranian R1b-Z2103 dated to 2800 BCE with EHG-WHG; we have Yamnaya R1b-Z2103 dated to 3300 BCE with a mixture of CHG-EHG and minor WHG/AN. Now we have this Iranian sample dated to 5500 BCE with a mixture of CHG+AN. This shows that R1b-Z2103 is a lot older than previously thought; only then can it actually have enough time to lose its autosomal components to drift. If R1b-Z2103 formed only in 6200 ybp then there is no way for it to show the vastly different autosomal profiles that it is showing.
    You can't cherry pick from this stuff though. It is a new tool and it must have some bugs. Look at how MA1 is well down the R1b tree, or the highly derived U106 in Pakistan, or P311 in BA Afghanistan. Something is amiss and you can't take anything literally yet. So, reserve your judgment regarding any sample.

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  3. #102
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    Actually the quality of the prepint is quite bad... Did they not read what they wrote ? Not just the wrong Y-DNA results. Some conclusions are likely wrong, too. Yamnaya did not spoke the language ancestral to all Indo-European languages. Indo-Iranians are not derived from Yamnaya.

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  5. #103
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    I'll have the samples come Monday, so I will start running stuff through the ringer. There will be new qpGraphs and such coming from the authors. I also alerted them to the issues with the YDNA. They are working on all of it.

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  7. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chad Rohlfsen View Post
    I'll have the samples come Monday, so I will start running stuff through the ringer. There will be new qpGraphs and such coming from the authors. I also alerted them to the issues with the YDNA. They are working on all of it.
    good news glad to hear thanks

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  9. #105
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    Has someone yet called April Fool on the R1b1a1a2 in Malta? Maybe they noticed the tiny obsession some have over Y-DNA R1b.

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  11. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeanL View Post
    It's only really hard to explain if the dating coming from yFull is taken at face value. If R1b-Z2103 is older than say 7500 ybp then there is plenty of time for the line to go to Iran and for some of it sub-branches to stay in Europe. In fact right now we have a Ukranian R1b-Z2103 dated to 2800 BCE with EHG-WHG; we have Yamnaya R1b-Z2103 dated to 3300 BCE with a mixture of CHG-EHG and minor WHG/AN. Now we have this Iranian sample dated to 5500 BCE with a mixture of CHG+AN. This shows that R1b-Z2103 is a lot older than previously thought; only then can it actually have enough time to lose its autosomal components to drift. If R1b-Z2103 formed only in 6200 ybp then there is no way for it to show the vastly different autosomal profiles that it is showing.
    If the Iranian sample R1b-Z2103 holds at 5500BCE then all European/steppe R1b-Z2103 samples will have to be re-dated, as well as R1b-L23 and R1b-L51 ----all three connected in Europe.Since we have L51 and Z2103 European samples with little or no Iranian farmer, it has to be seen as a sink-outlier. Also PF331,Y4363,L584,Z2106,Z2108/Z2109,Z2110 will have to be looked at. With Z2106,Z2108,Z2109,Z2110 not found in the Iranian regions.

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  13. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaikorth View Post
    They seem to be ancestral to the highly ANE Srubnaya outlier we've known about for some time, who alongside some Sintashta outliers is modeled in qpAdm as:

    0.084 Iron_Gates_HG
    0.278 Ganj_Dareh_N
    0.638 West_Siberia_N

    or


    0.193 Karelia_HG
    0.321 Ganj_Dareh_N
    0.486 West_Siberia_N
    They could be similar to the Baikal HG's recently published. That study did not have autosomal DNA for some reason, but had Y-DNA: https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...52409X16306927

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  15. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by epoch View Post
    Has someone yet called April Fool on the R1b1a1a2 in Malta? Maybe they noticed the tiny obsession some have over Y-DNA R1b.
    I did in post #52 : )

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  17. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by epoch View Post
    They could be similar to the Baikal HG's recently published. That study did not have autosomal DNA for some reason, but had Y-DNA: https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...52409X16306927
    The autosomal DNA of neolithic Baikal HG's was mentioned in some abstract, it's very different, more similar to Evenks and the east asian in Scythians. That's the likely reason why Okunevo gets 28% Han on top of Iran_N and West Siberian HG in qpAdm.

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  19. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chad Rohlfsen View Post
    I'll have the samples come Monday, so I will start running stuff through the ringer. There will be new qpGraphs and such coming from the authors. I also alerted them to the issues with the YDNA. They are working on all of it.
    Hi Chad, will this include all the autosomal samples? I'm very curious about the individual Jatt Sikh data (41 samples) as their results seem out of place for their region in comparison to the Punjabi Khatri, Gujarati Lohana, Gujarati A, Kashmiri Pandit, Dogra, etc. I noticed some minor mislabeling of geographic sampling locations so was wondering if it was possible some of the results were mislabeled too. If that's not the case, I'd really like to see their individual results since their sample size is massive compared to some of the other sampled South Asian populations.
    Last edited by Sapporo; 04-01-2018 at 09:56 AM.

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