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Thread: South Asian PCA based on the latest 2018 South/Central Asian paper

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mingle View Post
    Didn't poi post a PCA before that showed Bengalis cluster with Sinhalas? If Sinhalas cluster with Bengalis despite barely having any East Eurasian, then why does EE admixture cause Bengalis to drop outside of the PCA plot?

    Do West Bengalis also have significant EE admixture?
    I misread, the Bengalis were "not included in an analysis cluster"; so they were plotted but not considered in their divvying up of South Asia.


    “Chahar chez est tohfay Multan, Gard-o- Garma, Gada-o- Goristan”.

    Four things are the gift of Multan: Dusty winds, hot seasons, beggars and graveyards.




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  3. #12
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    United States of America Pashtunistan Afghanistan Greater Khorasan Azad Baluchistan Tajikistan
    I'm still confused on one thing though. How is it possible for Bengalis and Sinhalas to cluster together when one has a significant amount of East Eurasian that is close to non-existent in the other?

  4. #13
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    United States of America Pashtunistan Afghanistan Greater Khorasan Azad Baluchistan Tajikistan
    Quote Originally Posted by khanabadoshi View Post
    Jesus, this same paper has a single point for "Pathan".
    Also, the 'HGDP Pathan' here is considerably southern plotting for a Pashtun from Pakistan. I don't understand why it continues to be included in academic papers when it isn't a representative sample. The HGDP Pathan seems to be genetically like a Jatt or Khatri sample. The 'Pakistan_Pashtun' used in the oracle for K23b and K13 is much more representative.
    Last edited by Mingle; 04-02-2018 at 01:51 AM.

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  6. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by khanabadoshi View Post
    Seriously... I was just thinking that... the audacity of a PCA to have a Kalash dot... and no Yaghnobi, Shugnan, Rushan.
    How can a paper talk to me about Iran N, and not plot a single Iranian! ARGHHH!
    Jesus... a landmark paper which attempts to tell us definitively who banged whom on either side of the Hindu Kush felt it prudent to subdivide a group called Brahmin_Catholic into 3 distinct points. Jesus, this same paper has a single point for "Pathan".


    They attempt to explain the Summer holiday travel routes of a bunch of fanny-packed Ancients by showing me signs that their unruly kids took a sharpie and etched, 'Andronovo wuz here in spirit' in every stall of every truckstop in the entire subcontinent, except the truck-stops where the Ancients actually pulled over and had a cup of chai in.
    LMAO!! I know the frustration, but it was hilarious the way you framed it. But part of me is happy at least they included my own ethnic group in there. It was probably the case because the same Reich group studied the genetic diseases in Nepali endogamous groups last year.

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  8. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by poi View Post
    LMAO!! I know the frustration, but it was hilarious the way you framed it. But part of me is happy at least they included my own ethnic group in there. It was probably the case because the same Reich group studied the genetic diseases in Nepali endogamous groups last year.
    How seriously are we supposed to take this paper ? The PCA here looks nothing like the one you posted before. I also feel the lack of enough samples from populations. They just used 1 sample per population for the most part.

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  10. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by jesus View Post
    @Khana they didn’t even bother to model groups from central Asian or Iran. Not even Afghans or Tajiks. And most of the samples in the paper came from Central Asia and Iran. They should remove the world Central from the title.

    India does not release ancient samples but gets the most modeling. It’s a conspiracy!(just kidding).
    It would have been nice to compare with modern day Eastern Iranians from near the site , as well as Southern Iranians after all Shahr e Shokta is in Iran . S/SE Iran has maintained a strong continuum since the Neolithic. Interestingly the Steppe element to the paper was quite underwhelming, I was expecting very Steppe shifted samples that was not the case. The main take away was the various iterations of how Neolithic Iranian ancestry has mixed , how it has existed in almost unmixed form well into the early Bronze Age ( like the Afghan sample ), how the IVC contributed to the BMAC and existence of the ANE rich Central Asian "ghost" population ie Siberian HG / Kelteminar.

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  12. #17
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    United States of America Pashtunistan Afghanistan Greater Khorasan Azad Baluchistan Tajikistan
    ^ Southern Iranians as well as Northeast (Khorasani) Iranians and Herati Tajiks. I'd be curious as to how far apart those grouos are from us.

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    Here is my summary wrt the South Asians.

    Basically, we were expecting the Swat valley samples to be rich in Steppe and full of R1a, i.e. the Indo Aryan signal. Well, it turn out that the samples examined in this batch are less Steppe than the modern populations and have no R1a before 300BCE. Not the exclamation mark on the mass Aryan invasion that was supposed to turn the subcontinent upside down. Oh well.

    It could very well be the case where they will not be finding mass R1a even if R1a did indeed turn out to be the patrilineal Aryans. If the Aryans were cremating their dead, good luck with aDNA. Sigh.

    Hopefully we will know more about the Rakhigarhi samples soon.

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  15. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by poi View Post
    Here is my summary wrt the South Asians.

    Basically, we were expecting the Swat valley samples to be rich in Steppe and full of R1a, i.e. the Indo Aryan signal. Well, it turn out that the samples examined in this batch are less Steppe than the modern populations and have no R1a before 300BCE. Not the exclamation mark on the mass Aryan invasion that was supposed to turn the subcontinent upside down. Oh well.

    It could very well be the case where they will not be finding mass R1a even if R1a did indeed turn out to be the patrilineal Aryans. If the Aryans were cremating their dead, good luck with aDNA. Sigh.

    Hopefully we will know more about the Rakhigarhi samples soon.
    On the otherside in Tajikistan (Dashti-Kozy) and Ferghana (Kashkarchi) there were pastoralists, which look almost like Sintashta clones. It also seems that they bypassed BMAC so some later immigrations of Indo-Aryans could dramatically increase R1a and steppe ancestry. If i am not wrong there were different immigration waves of Indo-Aryans. For example the Kuru came later than Rigvedic tribes
    Last edited by Coldmountains; 04-02-2018 at 07:32 AM.
    Y-DNA: R1a> R-M417> R-Z645> R-Z93> R-Z94> R-Y3 (Sredny Stog culture)> R-L657> R-Y4(Andronovo)> R-Y6> R-Y5> R-Y920* (Pashtun)

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  17. #20
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    I have no idea why Bengalis were excluded.

    Bengalis are not the only SA pop with NE Asian or AA admixture, the admixture extends to Bihar Orissa Nepal Chattisgarh Jharkhand etc meaning its quite significant numerically to SA.

    Also baffled as to why Brahui/Baloch were excluded, wanted to know how much they resemble the modelled Indus diaspora group

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