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Thread: Iraqi and Syrian genetics

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leto View Post
    Not for the Christians.
    Any samples to compare?

  2. #12
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    [QUOTE=Awale;376296]Can't quite back it up myself but I recall a southern Iraqi Bedouin friend (King) pointing out to me ages back that Syrians from around the eastern parts of the country tend to have a Mesopotamian shift. Basically a shift toward populations like Assyrians, certain Iraqi-Arabs, Mandaeans as well as Iraqi and Iranian Jews.[QUOTE

    That makes sense as that region is part of upper Mesopotamia after all. However the people of Eastern Syria are considered settled “Bedouins” or other type of true Arab. Their problem is roughly parallel to those of the Iraqis. Jordan is another can of worms.
    Last edited by Censored; 04-08-2018 at 06:48 PM.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sikeliot View Post
    European-like ancestry in Lebanese is more Western European, not Balkan, based on the components on GEDMatch. If anything it is more likely Norman and not higher than 5%. Greeks have too high of NE European type ancestry when compared to the Lebanese for there to have been any input, and Mycenaeans were more Sardinian-like, so unless you score Baltic or Sardinian, unlikely you have Greek.

    Now, some Lebanese do score 'Italian' on MyHeritage, 23andme, etc. which means it is either Roman, or from a Greek group more close to Italians than to Greeks (islanders, Cypriots, etc).
    I am not saying I have modern Greek but rather Mycenaean.. Also weren't the Myceneans based in Greece and Crete? And Don't most Greeks have some ancestry from them? Correct me if Im wrong haha

    Here is what was discovered as the most convincing fits.

    [1] "1. CLOSEST SINGLE ITEM DISTANCE%"
    Lebanese_Christian Druze Lebanese_Druze Iraqi_Jew
    1.844524 2.078205 2.248564 3.018172
    Cypriot Lebanese_Muslim Samaritan Iranian_Jew
    3.153961 3.282967 3.694016 3.821621


    [1] "1. CLOSEST SINGLE ITEM DISTANCE%"
    Anatolia_BA Anatolia_ChL Levant_BA Iran_IA Armenia_ChL Mycenaean
    5.895898 6.245554 7.581708 7.714296 7.880475 8.998943
    Armenia_EBA Balkans_IA
    9.365366 10.308601

    w/o pen=0

    [1] "distance%=2.2674"

    Me_scaled

    Levant_BA,47.8
    Armenia_EBA,32.4
    Mycenaean,19.8

    w/ pen=0

    [1] "distance%=2.2323"

    Me_scaled

    Levant_BA,45
    Armenia_EBA,34.8
    Mycenaean,20.2

    both w/ & w/o pen=0

    [1] "distance%=2.0555"

    Me_scaled

    Samaritan,55
    Assyrian,45 (Samaritan is the most convincing proxy for Canaanite)

    To Quote

    The scaled results are most accurate ones, however the unscaled ones are interesting as they explain what we're seeing to some extent. You're clearly Lebanese Christian, this test is very receptive to recent drift and so this is very telling. For the same reason, I avoided using sets of closely related populations, so the fits I obtained are extremely solid. What we see is that despite being closest to Anatolia_BA out of all the ancient populations in the dataset so far, this isn't completely relevant in terms of actual ancestry. Instead, you remain principally a mixture of Levant_BA (early Semitic speakers/Amorites, in all likeliness similar to the Proto-Semites) and Armenia_EBA (which is Kura-Araxes), to me the addition of the two is probably equivalent to Sidon_BA so that would make you ~80% Bronze Age Canaanite on average, this is to be expected.

    What is more surprising though is the appearance of Late Bronze Age Greeks, the inclusion of which drastically improves the fit. It seems that you owe between ~15% and ~20% of your ancestry to an East Mediterranean source similar to the Mycenaeans. The unscaled fits further indicate that this mixture has to be Minoan-like, once again pointing in the direction of the Aegean. The surplus of Yamnaya_Samara-type admixture (=Proto-Indo-European) is probably linked to the Mitannians however, as the Steppe admixture in the Bronze Age Greeks was closer to Sintashta and Corded Ware than to Yamnaya while ought to expect additional CHG-like ancestry in Old Indic speakers which would results in something similar to Yamnaya_Samara.

    There are two scenarios which could work here, the first is that this is related to the arrival of the Sea Peoples, most notably the Philistines (whose material culture was essentially Aegean/Mycenaean AKA Late Helladic). We know that they migrated along the Anatolian and Cypriot coastline, leaving settlements in the Northern Levant (northern Lebanon & Syria) and the Southern Levant (Philistia) before making their way to Egypt. The arrival of the Sea Peoples during the LBA collapse is the most likely scenario for the introduction of this type of admixture. Alternatively, this could've arrived later when the Levant was under Seleucid domination, though I somewhat doubt this is the case. The only important migration of Aegeans that could explain the Mycenaean-like ancestry is that of the Sea Peoples, many of whom probably were Mycenaeans themselves.
    Furthermore: I also score Italian at times 1.5%, 10%, 14%, 29% But I dont believe any of it is actually genuine Roman or Italian peninsula ancestry even when they state that their samples are Tuscans.
    Last edited by Batroun; 04-09-2018 at 02:24 PM.

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  5. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leto View Post
    Not for the Christians.
    I usually score between 10-13% and other Lebanese Christians including one on this forum have scored the same, but perhaps there are others that I haven't seen yet. While Lebanese don't differ much genetically across the board on the large scale you can see minor differences between groups. I suggest people should should further break down Maronites from Mount Lebanon and say Greek Orthodox from Anfeh and Koura near the coast. As small as Lebanon is, historically speaking there were boundaries between zones of the country. Again, of course these are only noticeable when you compare Lebanese between each other..not on a global or even regional scale.


    Also, I apologize to O.P. for taking the thread in a different direction away from the title.
    Last edited by Batroun; 04-09-2018 at 02:28 PM.

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  7. #15
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    I am also quite curious about the DNA from this region. I have a half-sister who had a great-grandfather from southern Lebanon yet she only scores .9% Middle Eastern in the latest 23andMe revisions. However, the rest of her ancestry is in Northern Europe yet she still scores 3.1% Balkans, 3.1% Italian, and 1.4% Iberian with no known ancestry in any of those places.

    She has several matches with distant cousins from her great-grandfather's part of Lebanon with 43%, 10.3%, 3.5%, and 96.9% Middle Eastern. Either my sister's great-grandfather wasn't very much Middle Eastern to start with or, through the luck of the draw, didn't inherit much of his DNA. I'm not sure what to make of all the Balkan, Italian and Iberian, though.

  8. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Censored View Post
    Does anyone know more? I would like to see PCAs of Iraqis and Syrians from various regions.
    I am Syrian sunni Arab from north western Syria

    my ftdna results
    My origin -new.png
    my ftdna transferred from Ancestry
    ancestry myorigin.png

    my dnatribes from ancestry
    Dnatribes ancestry.png
    Last edited by Abd.H; 04-09-2018 at 10:52 PM.

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  10. #17
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    my dnatribes from ftdna
    table 2.png

    my heritage dna from Ancestry
    ancestry heritage - Copy.png
    my heritage dna from ftdna
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    my dna.land from Ancestry
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  12. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Batroun View Post
    I am not saying I have modern Greek but rather Mycenaean.. Also weren't the Myceneans based in Greece and Crete? And Don't most Greeks have some ancestry from them? Correct me if Im wrong haha
    Yes, but it is worth noting that Mycenaeans are closer to modern day southern Italians, Sicilians, and Jews, only with more Sardinian/EEF type ancestry than any of these groups have. They can be modeled, basically, as some mixture of Sicilian/Ashkenazi and Sardinian. The difference is modern Sicilians and Ashkenazim have more Levantine affinity, and lower EEF.

    While modern Greeks have some Mycenaean ancestry, modern Greece is genetically very different from Mycenaeans. Modern Greeks have less Sardinian/EEF affinity, and significantly higher Steppe input/"BaltoSlavic" (the presence of this in Greeks may be why Mycenaeans are better modeled with Sicilians).

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  14. #19
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    My geneplaza k29 results
    2222222.png

    Table3 dnatribes ftdna
    tabel3 ftdna.png
    Table3 dnatribes ancestry
    tabbel3.png


    my gedrosia K13 Oracle

    Admix Results (sorted):
    # Population Percent
    1 CHG_EEF 26.18
    2 IRAN_NEOLITHIC 24.66
    3 NATUFIAN 19.48
    4 ANATOLIA_NEOLITHIC 17.27
    5 EHG 3.82
    6 ANCESTRAL_INDIAN 3.14
    7 SUB_SAHARAN 1.58
    8 SHG_WHG 1.16


    Using 1 population approximation:
    1 Cypriot @ 6.839436
    2 Turkish_Adana @ 6.880951
    3 Turkish_Kayseri @ 8.000103
    4 Lebanese @ 8.116494
    5 Druze @ 10.665840
    6 Jew_Moroccan @ 10.816840
    7 Armenian @ 11.473576
    8 Syrian @ 11.519552
    9 Jew_iraqi @ 11.758565
    10 Turkish_Trabzon @ 11.792136
    11 Jew_Iranian @ 11.865099
    12 Turkish @ 12.244685
    13 Assyrian @ 12.251879
    14 Turkish_Istanbul @ 12.454618
    15 Azeri @ 12.875372
    16 Jordanian @ 12.897185
    17 Jew_Tunisian @ 13.940369
    18 Turkish_Aydin @ 14.035112
    19 Jew_Libyan @ 14.721140
    20 Jew_Ashkenazi @ 15.067554

    Using 2 populations approximation:
    1 50% Cypriot +50% Turkish_Adana @ 3.686700
    Last edited by Abd.H; 04-10-2018 at 01:10 AM.

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  16. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abd.H View Post
    My geneplaza k29 results
    2222222.png

    Table3 dnatribes ftdna
    tabel3 ftdna.png
    Table3 dnatribes ancestry
    tabbel3.png


    my gedrosia K13 Oracle

    Admix Results (sorted):
    # Population Percent
    1 CHG_EEF 26.18
    2 IRAN_NEOLITHIC 24.66
    3 NATUFIAN 19.48
    4 ANATOLIA_NEOLITHIC 17.27
    5 EHG 3.82
    6 ANCESTRAL_INDIAN 3.14
    7 SUB_SAHARAN 1.58
    8 SHG_WHG 1.16


    Using 1 population approximation:
    1 Cypriot @ 6.839436
    2 Turkish_Adana @ 6.880951
    3 Turkish_Kayseri @ 8.000103
    4 Lebanese @ 8.116494
    5 Druze @ 10.665840
    6 Jew_Moroccan @ 10.816840
    7 Armenian @ 11.473576
    8 Syrian @ 11.519552
    9 Jew_iraqi @ 11.758565
    10 Turkish_Trabzon @ 11.792136
    11 Jew_Iranian @ 11.865099
    12 Turkish @ 12.244685
    13 Assyrian @ 12.251879
    14 Turkish_Istanbul @ 12.454618
    15 Azeri @ 12.875372
    16 Jordanian @ 12.897185
    17 Jew_Tunisian @ 13.940369
    18 Turkish_Aydin @ 14.035112
    19 Jew_Libyan @ 14.721140
    20 Jew_Ashkenazi @ 15.067554

    Using 2 populations approximation:
    1 50% Cypriot +50% Turkish_Adana @ 3.686700

    Thanks. Syrian from where? Also can you post Harappa and Gedrosia K12.

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