Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 21

Thread: Native American in a Finn?

  1. #1
    Registered Users
    Posts
    11
    Sex
    Location
    Arlington, TX
    Ethnicity
    Mostly Finnish
    Nationality
    USA! USA! USA!
    Y-DNA
    N-M46
    mtDNA
    N1a

    United States of America Finland Sami United Kingdom Ireland Germany

    Native American in a Finn?

    Wondering if anyone might have some insight into this. I likely will also post it in the Finland section.

    My dad just got tested via Ancestry and it came out pretty much as we expected: All four of his grandparents were born in Finland, so of course that would expect to come out mostly Finnish, maybe some Swedish/Norwegian/Russian in there, perhaps some British Isles since there's a paper trail that leads back to Scotland on one ancestor.

    Well, we were close: 99+% Finnish... and <1% Native American.

    He said a more specific breakdown put the Finnish to Lakeland/Lapland and also Western Finland/Oulu. Both of those make sense: his mother's parents were from Western Finland (Ylivieska and Toysa and before them it mostly traces back to the Western coast and a bit into Sweden), and his father's parents from up near the Arctic Circle (Tervola, with previous lines in Rovaniemi, Kemijarvi, Sodankyla, Ii, Kittila, and into Northern Sweden).

    So... Where would this tiny amount of Native American come from?

  2. #2
    Registered Users
    Posts
    212
    Sex
    Ethnicity
    Ashkenazi + German/Slavic
    Nationality
    'murican
    Y-DNA
    E-L791/792
    mtDNA
    V31 (new SC)

    United States of America Belarus Poland Germany Austrian Empire Czech Republic
    Quote Originally Posted by shutout52 View Post
    Wondering if anyone might have some insight into this. I likely will also post it in the Finland section.

    My dad just got tested via Ancestry and it came out pretty much as we expected: All four of his grandparents were born in Finland, so of course that would expect to come out mostly Finnish, maybe some Swedish/Norwegian/Russian in there, perhaps some British Isles since there's a paper trail that leads back to Scotland on one ancestor.

    Well, we were close: 99+% Finnish... and <1% Native American.

    He said a more specific breakdown put the Finnish to Lakeland/Lapland and also Western Finland/Oulu. Both of those make sense: his mother's parents were from Western Finland (Ylivieska and Toysa and before them it mostly traces back to the Western coast and a bit into Sweden), and his father's parents from up near the Arctic Circle (Tervola, with previous lines in Rovaniemi, Kemijarvi, Sodankyla, Ii, Kittila, and into Northern Sweden).

    So... Where would this tiny amount of Native American come from?
    I'm certainly not the best person to explain this, but you're certainly not the only Northeastern European person who scores some Amerindian. How much of it do you score in K15? Erzyas, Mordvins, Tatars, and Russians commonly score it, too, and it's almost certainly not because they have recent Amerindian ancestors. There's this thing called "ANE", or Ancient/Ancestral North Eurasian, which is based on Afontova Gora and Mal'ta samples from Paleolithic Siberia - this population contributed a bit less than half to the genome of most modern Native Americans, with the rest being East Asian. So, the other forum members can correct me if I'm wrong, but it's most likely registering excess ANE + East Asian (also genes from Iron/Bronze Age migrations of Siberians into NE Europe) as "Native American."
    [1] "distance%=3.1004"

    Ashkenazi_Jew,84.8
    Polish,8.2
    Czech,7

  3. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Eihwaz For This Useful Post:

     JohnHowellsTyrfro (04-11-2018), Sebbo (04-22-2018), shutout52 (04-11-2018), yelmex (05-10-2018)

  4. #3
    Registered Users
    Posts
    11
    Sex
    Location
    Arlington, TX
    Ethnicity
    Mostly Finnish
    Nationality
    USA! USA! USA!
    Y-DNA
    N-M46
    mtDNA
    N1a

    United States of America Finland Sami United Kingdom Ireland Germany
    I haven't run it through any of the GedMatch options yet-- it's my dad's test so I don't have access to the raw data to run it yet, but I will if I can. At the very least I'll see him the summer and can probably do it then.

    Thanks for the explanation though, that certainly makes sense.

  5. The Following User Says Thank You to shutout52 For This Useful Post:

     Eihwaz (04-11-2018)

  6. #4
    Registered Users
    Posts
    1,933
    Sex
    Location
    South East Wales UK
    Ethnicity
    Welsh
    Nationality
    British
    Y-DNA
    U106 Z326 R-BY27310
    mtDNA
    J1c1b2a

    United Kingdom Wales
    I'm British and I regularly get around 1 % Native American/Amerindian/Arctic Amerindian.
    If it isn't noise my guess is also that it could be a trace of something with an Ancient Asian source.
    On archaic matches I get a small match with a sample from Altai Siberia.
    My Y DNA results suggest a connection to Norway but that may be a 1,000 years ago or longer.
    Last edited by JohnHowellsTyrfro; 04-11-2018 at 04:25 PM.

  7. #5
    Registered Users
    Posts
    196
    Sex
    Y-DNA
    I1
    mtDNA
    L3e4

    Cape Verde Netherlands
    Northeast Europeans occasionally receive such outlandish trace regions (also "Polynesia"!) on Ancestry. See this link for their results


    East European AncestryDNA results

    I would just consider it a mislabeled region which instead is probably indicative of ancient shared Siberian origins.
    Last edited by Don Felipe; 04-11-2018 at 04:37 PM.
    Hidden Content
    Exploring the Ethnic Origins of the Afro-Diaspora

  8. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Don Felipe For This Useful Post:

     Lugus (04-11-2018), Táltos (04-20-2018)

  9. #6
    It is not noise, nor outlandish. It is traces or in many cases more than trace from parts of East Asia.

    If there was no interaction with Western/Central Eurasians, N1c would plot closely with the Chinese and other East Asians. But since much happened along the way, N1c males and the rest of Finns can have 1% Native American. 1% Siberian and so on. None of it is noise.

    Noise would be .5% Khoisan for a Finn of 100% Finn Ancestry.

  10. #7
    Registered Users
    Posts
    31

    it's obvious most N and R have their Y dnas traced back to north asia ,or SE Asia.

  11. The Following User Says Thank You to skyyrie For This Useful Post:

     Messier 67 (04-22-2018)

  12. #8
    Registered Users
    Posts
    84
    Sex
    Location
    Florida (windy, soggy, wet Florida)
    Ethnicity
    Finnish-Colonial American
    Y-DNA
    n1c1 Gf U106 F
    mtDNA
    H1b1 Finnish

    Finns and Native Americans were outcasts for many years in places like the UP, that said, 1% seems like noise to me

  13. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by skyyrie View Post
    it's obvious most N and R have their Y dnas traced back to north asia ,or SE Asia.
    Yes, and do they consider 1% Neanderthal results "noise"?

    If people are being labeled 1% Denisovan, while at the same time only 1% total Native American and East Asian. Then something is completely wrong and biased in the %.

    The Denisovan are only from East Asia. And they are tens of thousands of years before the departure from East Asia by P which divided into Q and R. And Denisovan mixing was relatively minimal for there exists no Denisovan mtDNA women (a pre-L offshoot). When the East Asians were mixing with those with those with Denisovan DNA (possible the mtDNA M family in East Asia), they were the ancestors of the Chinese, Koreans, Native American and Indo-European (back when they were Mongoloid in appearance). When these K2 were 100% East Asians like the Chinese (Y-DNA O) they came up 2-4% or more Denisovan. For they did not change much out of Sundaland (Y-DNA k2).

    When leaving East Asia (Q and R), they are trying to tell us, all the East Asian DNA vanished for it is just "noise", but Denisovan DNA is not noise in Europe at around 1%. So when they had 100% East Asian admixture in Sundaland and at the same time 2-4% Denisovan DNA, that is fairly accurate. But when they invaded West Eurasia, some will try to convince you they lost all East Asian admixture, but kept about (a rough estimate of) 1/5 of the Denisovan DNA. Shouldn't they also kept around 20% East Asian admixture.

    Those in Russia should be getting their admixture above 20% East Asian. Central Europe 10% East Asian. Western Europe 5% East Asian. If they are getting 1% Denisovan.

    There are SNPs that are shared between East Asians and Europeans and are discarded/mislabeled to minimize the appearance of a link between East Asia and Europe. But to show something "neat and cool", like being 1% Nethanderthal and 1% Denisovan. That is ok to show.

    This is why I like the Eurogenes Genetic Ancestry Project, because they do show Europeans with Siberian DNA, Native American DNA, and East Asian DNA. While the big companies try to eliminate all links between East and West Eurasia.
    Last edited by Messier 67; 04-22-2018 at 05:26 PM.

  14. #10
    Registered Users
    Posts
    19

    I think like has been posted above it is related to Ancient North Eurasians.

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Sat-Okh, was he really part Native American?
    By Tomenable in forum Autosomal (auDNA)
    Replies: 24
    Last Post: 12-11-2017, 02:00 AM
  2. Amerindian / Native American
    By Tobias.Kemper in forum Autosomal (auDNA)
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 09-26-2017, 09:37 PM
  3. Replies: 34
    Last Post: 09-13-2017, 05:00 PM
  4. Native S. American Y-DNA Results
    By DMXX in forum American (South)
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 08-10-2015, 02:54 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •