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Thread: GEDmatch regular vs. genesis, your opinion...

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Torc Seanathair View Post
    Some similar patterns to Jerry S.
    Gedmatch MDLP K23b
    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 European_Hunters_Gatherers 36.04
    2 European_Early_Farmers 27.79
    3 Caucasian 23.05
    4 Ancestral_Altaic 5.32
    5 South_Central_Asian 3.82
    6 Near_East 2.72


    Finished reading population data. 620 populations found.
    23 components mode.

    --------------------------------

    Least-squares method.

    Using 1 population approximation:
    1 Belgian_ @ 2.742932
    2 Frisian_ @ 4.009971
    3 English_ @ 4.309509
    4 German-Volga_ @ 4.401709
    5 South_German_ @ 4.416480
    6 Irish_ @ 5.103638
    7 English_Kent_GBR_ @ 5.241352
    8 North_European_ @ 5.486099
    9 Dutch_ @ 5.598124
    10 English_Cornwall_GBR_ @ 6.342453
    11 CEU_ @ 6.399582
    12 British_ @ 6.912372
    13 Welsh_ @ 7.046048
    14 Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR_ @ 8.578541
    15 Norwegian_East_ @ 8.633936
    16 Norwegian_West_ @ 8.945950
    17 North_German_ @ 9.017219
    18 Orcadian_ @ 9.120359
    19 Dane_ @ 9.232528
    20 Austrian_ @ 9.463321

    Using 2 populations approximation:
    1 50% Belgian_ +50% German-Volga_ @ 2.403964


    Using 3 populations approximation:
    1 50% English_Kent_GBR_ +25% Macedonian_ +25% Norwegian_West_ @ 1.802727


    Using 4 populations approximation:
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++
    1 Albanian_Tirana_ + English_Kent_GBR_ + Norwegian_West_ + Norwegian_West_ @ 1.635040
    2 Albanian_Tirana_ + British_ + Norwegian_West_ + Norwegian_West_ @ 1.637967
    3 English_Kent_GBR_ + Greek_Thessaly_ + Norwegian_West_ + Norwegian_West_ @ 1.638370
    4 Belgian_ + Kosovar_ + Norwegian_West_ + Norwegian_West_ @ 1.640595
    5 British_ + Greek_Thessaly_ + Norwegian_West_ + Norwegian_West_ @ 1.641184
    6 British_ + Greek_Peloponnesos_ + Norwegian_West_ + Norwegian_West_ @ 1.703319
    7 English_Kent_GBR_ + Greek_Peloponnesos_ + Norwegian_West_ + Norwegian_West_ @ 1.710076
    8 Albanian_Tirana_ + CEU_ + Norwegian_West_ + Norwegian_West_ @ 1.718214
    9 English_Kent_GBR_ + Kosovar_ + Norwegian_West_ + Norwegian_West_ @ 1.735391
    10 English_Cornwall_GBR_ + English_Kent_GBR_ + Macedonian_ + Norwegian_West_ @ 1.747359
    11 British_ + Greek_Thessaloniki_ + Norwegian_West_ + Norwegian_West_ @ 1.768618
    12 English_Kent_GBR_ + Greek_Thessaloniki_ + Norwegian_West_ + Norwegian_West_ @ 1.775385
    13 CEU_ + Greek_Thessaly_ + Norwegian_West_ + Norwegian_West_ @ 1.790363
    14 Belgian_ + Greek_Northwest_ + Norwegian_West_ + Norwegian_West_ @ 1.801089
    15 English_Kent_GBR_ + English_Kent_GBR_ + Macedonian_ + Norwegian_West_ @ 1.802727
    16 English_Cornwall_GBR_ + Kosovar_ + Norwegian_West_ + Swede_ @ 1.833532
    17 Albanian_Tirana_ + Belgian_ + Norwegian_West_ + Norwegian_West_ @ 1.839562
    18 English_Cornwall_GBR_ + Greek_Thessaly_ + Norwegian_West_ + Norwegian_West_ @ 1.850937
    19 Central_Greek_ + Norwegian_West_ + Norwegian_West_ + Norwegian_West_ @ 1.856446
    20 Albanian_Tirana_ + English_Cornwall_GBR_ + Norwegian_West_ + Norwegian_West_ @ 1.856558

    Genesis MDLP K23b
    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 European_Hunters_Gatherers 36.04
    2 European_Early_Farmers 27.79
    3 Caucasian 23.05
    4 Ancestral_Altaic 5.32
    5 South_Central_Asian 3.82
    6 Near_East 2.72
    7 South_Indian 0.5
    8 Amerindian 0.29
    9 Melano_Polynesian 0.26
    10 Archaic_Human 0.22

    Single Population Sharing:

    # Population (source) Distance
    1 Belgian ( ) 2.89
    2 Frisian ( ) 3.72
    3 South_German ( ) 4.1
    4 German-Volga ( ) 4.82
    5 Dutch ( ) 5.02
    6 English ( ) 5.63
    7 Irish ( ) 5.63
    8 North_German ( ) 6.12
    9 English_Kent_GBR ( ) 6.89
    10 North_European ( ) 7.31
    11 Dane ( ) 7.38
    12 Swede ( ) 7.7
    13 Norwegian_East ( ) 8.08
    14 English_Cornwall_GBR ( ) 8.29
    15 CEU ( ) 9.13
    16 British ( ) 9.56
    17 Welsh ( ) 9.62
    18 Austrian ( ) 9.93
    19 Norwegian_West ( ) 10.34
    20 French ( ) 10.96

    Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

    # Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
    1 93.2% Belgian ( ) + 6.8% Greek_Phokaia ( ) @ 1.51
    2 70.3% Norwegian_West ( ) + 29.7% Kosovar ( ) @ 1.58
    3 91.9% Belgian ( ) + 8.1% Greek_Peloponnesos ( ) @ 1.64
    4 95.8% Belgian ( ) + 4.2% Druze ( ) @ 1.65
    5 93.7% Belgian ( ) + 6.3% Greek_Macedonia ( ) @ 1.66
    6 95.4% Belgian ( ) + 4.6% Lebanese_Christian ( ) @ 1.68
    7 94.8% Belgian ( ) + 5.2% Cypriot ( ) @ 1.68
    8 94.3% Belgian ( ) + 5.7% Greek_Islands ( ) @ 1.68
    9 93.6% Belgian ( ) + 6.4% Greek ( ) @ 1.69
    10 73.1% Norwegian_West ( ) + 26.9% Albanian_Tirana ( ) @ 1.69
    11 92.2% Belgian ( ) + 7.8% Greek_Thessaly ( ) @ 1.7
    12 95.4% Belgian ( ) + 4.6% Lebanese_Druze ( ) @ 1.71
    13 93% Belgian ( ) + 7% Central_Greek ( ) @ 1.72
    14 94% Belgian ( ) + 6% Greek_Smyrna ( ) @ 1.72
    15 92.3% Belgian ( ) + 7.7% Albanian_Tirana ( ) @ 1.73
    16 92.5% Belgian ( ) + 7.5% Greek_Thessaloniki ( ) @ 1.74
    17 91.1% Belgian ( ) + 8.9% Greek_Northwest ( ) @ 1.75
    18 93.8% Belgian ( ) + 6.2% Greek_Athens ( ) @ 1.75
    19 91.2% Belgian ( ) + 8.8% Macedonian ( ) @ 1.75
    20 93.3% Belgian ( ) + 6.7% Romanian_Jew ( ) @ 1.75

    I have no idea which lines my Mediterranean and Scandinavian components come from. The Albanian_Tirana hit was quite a surprise.

    My LivingDNA Genesis provides much more variation, as you would expect.
    so, not going solely by the paper trail (because people lie, DNA doesn't) do you have any distant Jewish or Balkan ancestry?

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by JerryS. View Post
    yes, the distances with genesis are a little higher but at least they are within the same degree of differences i.e. regular is low of 2.2 and high of 2.7 difference of .5, while genesis is 4.2 low and 4.7 high for a difference of .5 as well.

    for me I guess its not that big of a deal, but as you can see, adding just 1 or 2 percent of one thing and taking just 1 or 2 percent of another can change the ethnicity models for someone. for instance in my case I have no French ancestry and never got French on a population model (other than what I think is the grossly inaccurate single population lists) but with the new genesis French comes up as a primary population group on the mixed mode population groups and in some cases my Italian is way over represented and even shift more north than what it is.

    I realize this is really just good guess work at best for people that have mixed ancestry like I do. I was just wondering who else has had some noticeable changes.
    They've dropped some of my percentages by a few percent and increased others. For example, here's my MDLP K23b original:

    1 European_Hunters_Gatherers 38.01
    2 European_Early_Farmers 27.01
    3 Caucasian 21.32
    4 South_Central_Asian 6.03
    5 Ancestral_Altaic 4.58
    6 Amerindian 1.48
    7 Australoid 0.78
    8 East_Siberian 0.62
    9 Arctic 0.13
    10 Subsaharian 0.04

    And here's Genesis:

    1 European_Hunters_Gatherers 40.17
    2 European_Early_Farmers 26.86
    3 Caucasian 20.33
    4 South_Central_Asian 5.25
    5 Ancestral_Altaic 4.58
    6 Amerindian 2.33
    7 East_African 0.27
    8 Archaic_African 0.13
    9 Australoid 0.09
    10 Archaic_Human 0.01

    It's reduced my South Asian and increased my Amerindian. I seem to be getting small amounts of East African in a few of the genesis calculators as well, which I've never gotten before. In Eurogenes K15 original:

    1 North_Sea 33.29
    2 Atlantic 27.67
    3 Eastern_Euro 11
    4 Baltic 10.72
    5 West_Med 8.93
    6 West_Asian 5.32
    7 South_Asian 1.64
    8 Amerindian 1.25

    9 Oceanian 0.15
    10 Siberian 0.01

    And in Genesis:

    1 North_Sea 33.72
    2 Atlantic 27.77
    3 Eastern_Euro 10.87
    4 Baltic 10.4
    5 West_Med 9.45
    6 West_Asian 5.79
    7 Amerindian 1.14
    8 South_Asian 0.69

    9 Oceanian 0.16

    It's drastically reduced my South Asian (almost every genesis calc has reduced this component, some by quite a lot). Genesis has messed around with my mixed modes as well actually!

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ais View Post
    They've dropped some of my percentages by a few percent and increased others. For example, here's my MDLP K23b original:

    1 European_Hunters_Gatherers 38.01
    2 European_Early_Farmers 27.01
    3 Caucasian 21.32
    4 South_Central_Asian 6.03
    5 Ancestral_Altaic 4.58
    6 Amerindian 1.48
    7 Australoid 0.78
    8 East_Siberian 0.62
    9 Arctic 0.13
    10 Subsaharian 0.04

    And here's Genesis:

    1 European_Hunters_Gatherers 40.17
    2 European_Early_Farmers 26.86
    3 Caucasian 20.33
    4 South_Central_Asian 5.25
    5 Ancestral_Altaic 4.58
    6 Amerindian 2.33
    7 East_African 0.27
    8 Archaic_African 0.13
    9 Australoid 0.09
    10 Archaic_Human 0.01

    It's reduced my South Asian and increased my Amerindian. I seem to be getting small amounts of East African in a few of the genesis calculators as well, which I've never gotten before. In Eurogenes K15 original:

    1 North_Sea 33.29
    2 Atlantic 27.67
    3 Eastern_Euro 11
    4 Baltic 10.72
    5 West_Med 8.93
    6 West_Asian 5.32
    7 South_Asian 1.64
    8 Amerindian 1.25

    9 Oceanian 0.15
    10 Siberian 0.01

    And in Genesis:

    1 North_Sea 33.72
    2 Atlantic 27.77
    3 Eastern_Euro 10.87
    4 Baltic 10.4
    5 West_Med 9.45
    6 West_Asian 5.79
    7 Amerindian 1.14
    8 South_Asian 0.69

    9 Oceanian 0.16

    It's drastically reduced my South Asian (almost every genesis calc has reduced this component, some by quite a lot). Genesis has messed around with my mixed modes as well actually!
    so now the questions are........ are the regular models too conservative or are the genesis too liberal in their guestimates?

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by JerryS. View Post
    I used Dodecad V3 for this example, but my MDLP has changed a bit too, as has HarappaWorld and some Eurogenes.... the basic or regular models have not changed from the past, but the genesis versions have and only recently so. the genesis models were the same as the regular models until this last week for me.
    Yeah I just checked Eurogenes K13 on Genesis though and it's the same as my regular gedmatch results, both admixture and oracle. I guess I should check some other calculators. Just tried MDLP K16 and yeah, there's like a 1% or less difference on some of them. It's so minor though, I probably wouldn't have noticed it if I hadn't been comparing them side by side.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobinBMc View Post
    Yeah I just checked Eurogenes K13 on Genesis though and it's the same as my regular gedmatch results, both admixture and oracle. I guess I should check some other calculators. Just tried MDLP K16 and yeah, there's like a 1% or less difference on some of them. It's so minor though, I probably wouldn't have noticed it if I hadn't been comparing them side by side.
    my MDLP K16 shifted east and went from English to French for primary and from Balkans to Caucuses for secondary.

  6. #16
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    Anyways Gedmatch Genesis is what will continue as Gedmatch is migrating all its data into Gedmatch Genesis

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by jortita View Post
    Anyways Gedmatch Genesis is what will continue as Gedmatch is migrating all its data into Gedmatch Genesis
    when? I've had a separate GEDmatch regular kit and genesis kit for over a year. they've both given the same results in all that time until this past week.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by JerryS. View Post
    when? I've had a separate GEDmatch regular kit and genesis kit for over a year. they've both given the same results in all that time until this past week.
    Have you checked your cousin matches on genesis?

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by JerryS. View Post
    when? I've had a separate GEDmatch regular kit and genesis kit for over a year. they've both given the same results in all that time until this past week.
    It is because they are changing the algorithms in Gedmatch Genesis, all my ancestry results have changed. The Gedmatch Genesis is a beta version and will replace Gedmatch soon

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ais View Post
    Have you checked your cousin matches on genesis?
    only one that I know of has signed up with regular and genesis but he is a 3rd cousin....

    his regular:

    Admix Results (sorted):


    # Population Percent
    1 West_European 34.69
    2 Mediterranean 31.21
    3 West_Asian 14.14
    4 East_European 8.57
    5 Southwest_Asian 7.37
    6 Northwest_African 2.07
    7 South_Asian 1.72
    8 Neo_African 0.21

    Single Population Sharing:


    # Population (source) Distance
    1 Tuscan (Henn) 8.65
    2 Tuscan (Xing) 8.72
    3 TSI (HapMap) 9.27
    4 N_Italian (Dodecad) 13.52
    5 O_Italian (Dodecad) 14.49
    6 Slovenian (Xing) 16.42
    7 Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) 16.93
    8 Portuguese (Dodecad) 18.12
    9 Tuscan (HGDP) 18.14
    10 Romanians_14 (Behar) 18.2
    11 French (HGDP) 18.2
    12 Ashkenazi (Dodecad) 18.3
    13 French (Dodecad) 18.32
    14 North_Italian (HGDP) 18.46
    15 Hungarians (Behar) 18.87
    16 C_Italian (Dodecad) 19.43
    17 CEU (HapMap) 20.04
    18 IBS (1000Genomes) 20.38
    19 Balkans (Dodecad) 20.42
    20 N._European (Xing) 20.6

    Mixed Mode Population Sharing:


    # Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
    1 58.3% N._European (Xing) + 41.7% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) @ 1.71
    2 56.8% Argyll (1000 Genomes) + 43.2% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) @ 2
    3 57.3% German (Dodecad) + 42.7% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) @ 2.36
    4 81.8% Tuscan (Henn) + 18.2% FIN (1000Genomes) @ 2.47
    5 56.1% Orkney (1000 Genomes) + 43.9% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) @ 2.49
    6 59.1% CEU (HapMap) + 40.9% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) @ 2.51
    7 54.2% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) + 45.8% Swedish (Dodecad) @ 2.52
    8 57.1% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 42.9% Swedish (Dodecad) @ 2.59
    9 56.5% Orcadian (HGDP) + 43.5% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) @ 2.61
    10 83.9% Tuscan (Henn) + 16.1% Finnish (Dodecad) @ 2.86
    11 54.3% Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) + 45.7% CEU (HapMap) @ 2.99
    12 72.2% Tuscan (Xing) + 27.8% German (Dodecad) @ 3.02
    13 52.3% Ashkenazi (Dodecad) + 47.7% CEU (HapMap) @ 3.05
    14 54.4% CEU (HapMap) + 45.6% Morocco_Jews (Behar) @ 3.09
    15 81% TSI (HapMap) + 19% FIN (1000Genomes) @ 3.16
    16 58.8% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 41.2% Swedish (Dodecad) @ 3.16
    17 72.6% Tuscan (Henn) + 27.4% German (Dodecad) @ 3.27
    18 52.8% German (Dodecad) + 47.2% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) @ 3.3
    19 53.9% N._European (Xing) + 46.1% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) @ 3.31
    20 83.1% TSI (HapMap) + 16.9% Finnish (Dodecad) @ 3.31


    his genesis:

    Admix Results (sorted):


    # Population Percent
    1 West_European 34.15
    2 Mediterranean 29.49
    3 West_Asian 14.88
    4 East_European 10.56
    5 Southwest_Asian 4.97
    6 Northwest_African 3.53
    7 East_African 1.48
    8 Neo_African 0.6
    9 Palaeo_African 0.33

    Single Population Sharing:


    # Population (source) Distance
    1 Tuscan (Xing) 10.5
    2 Tuscan (Henn) 10.85
    3 TSI (HapMap) 11.17
    4 Slovenian (Xing) 14.44
    5 N_Italian (Dodecad) 15.22
    6 O_Italian (Dodecad) 16.05
    7 Romanians_14 (Behar) 16.66
    8 Hungarians (Behar) 16.85
    9 Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) 17.53
    10 Balkans (Dodecad) 18.53
    11 Ashkenazi (Dodecad) 19.09
    12 French (HGDP) 19.31
    13 French (Dodecad) 19.49
    14 Portuguese (Dodecad) 19.54
    15 Tuscan (HGDP) 19.68
    16 CEU (HapMap) 19.85
    17 North_Italian (HGDP) 20.17
    18 N._European (Xing) 20.37
    19 C_Italian (Dodecad) 20.64
    20 German (Dodecad) 20.7

    Mixed Mode Population Sharing:


    # Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
    1 54.3% German (Dodecad) + 45.7% Morocco_Jews (Behar) @ 3.24
    2 59.2% German (Dodecad) + 40.8% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) @ 3.29
    3 80.4% Tuscan (Xing) + 19.6% Finnish (Dodecad) @ 3.42
    4 54.3% Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) + 45.7% German (Dodecad) @ 3.43
    5 58.6% Tuscan (Xing) + 41.4% Slovenian (Xing) @ 3.51
    6 78.3% Tuscan (Xing) + 21.7% FIN (1000Genomes) @ 3.53
    7 52.1% Ashkenazi (Dodecad) + 47.9% German (Dodecad) @ 3.54
    8 79.4% TSI (HapMap) + 20.6% Finnish (Dodecad) @ 3.58
    9 57% TSI (HapMap) + 43% Slovenian (Xing) @ 3.77
    10 57.8% Tuscan (Henn) + 42.2% Slovenian (Xing) @ 3.85
    11 80% Tuscan (Henn) + 20% Finnish (Dodecad) @ 3.85
    12 54.9% German (Dodecad) + 45.1% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) @ 4.08
    13 53.3% Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) + 46.7% CEU (HapMap) @ 4.09
    14 77.5% TSI (HapMap) + 22.5% FIN (1000Genomes) @ 4.19
    15 57.9% German (Dodecad) + 42.1% S_Italian (Dodecad) @ 4.2
    16 65.3% German (Dodecad) + 34.7% Cypriots (Behar) @ 4.23
    17 56.3% German (Dodecad) + 43.7% Sicilian (Dodecad) @ 4.23
    18 78.1% Tuscan (Henn) + 21.9% FIN (1000Genomes) @ 4.23
    19 55.4% Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) + 44.6% Argyll (1000 Genomes) @ 4.28
    20 56.1% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 43.9% Swedish (Dodecad) @ 4.3
    Last edited by JerryS.; 04-26-2018 at 06:16 PM.

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