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Thread: Global25 automated nMonte for South/Central Asian members

  1. #4631
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    Quote Originally Posted by client View Post
    You may-
    1)Look at the table that pops up and tells you the percentages without individual distances
    2)Begin using xmix or some other software

    This is an absurd request, how do you do "models" without ever glancing at the 'closestDistances' part?
    If you are using multiple components then you arent even interested in individual distances to begin with. The purpose is to look at the fit and the percentages not isolated individuals.

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  3. #4632
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    Quote Originally Posted by Censored View Post
    If you are using multiple components then you arent even interested in individual distances to begin with. The purpose is to look at the fit and the percentages not isolated individuals.
    But you have to keep the individual distances in mind...
    What's the point in modelling with references that are at a very low distance to your target...

    I had posted this elsewhere:
    Quote Originally Posted by client View Post
    I wasn't sure where to post this, but it's pretty amazing!
    "sample": "Test1:Australian",
    "fit": 1.5699,
    "Papuan": 65.83,
    "Great_Andamanese_100BP": 31.67,
    "Morocco_Iberomaurusian": 0.83,
    "San": 0.83,
    "Tibetan": 0.83,
    "MA1": 0,
    "closestDistances": [
    "Papuan:undefined: 20.79179",
    "Great_Andamanese_100BP:undefined: 39.98317
    ",
    "Tibetan:undefined: 53.92118",
    "MA1:undefined: 57.76904",
    "Morocco_Iberomaurusian:undefined: 67.16426",
    "San:undefined: 85.98078"
    ]
    The individual distances part allows one to appreciate how the Australian Aborigine sample is in a direct linear cline between Papuan and Great_Andamanese, despite being distant to either of them individually.

    Great_Andamanese_100BP - - - - - - - - - - Australian - - - - - Papuan

  4. #4633
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    The closest distance is a useful tool... “check fit” during nmonte modeling. Even the nMonte3 R screipt outputs 8 closest distances, but the online tool outputs (upto)100. What censored probably meant was that the “text results” get long due to the inclusion and makes it hard to copy-paste. But users can simply remove that part when pasting.
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  6. #4634
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    I get a little SE Asian related ancestry in almost all calculators but it doesn't show up in g25 (i have tried simulated AA, Thai). Could that actually be my excess AASI showing up as SE Asian in those Admixture calculators or my SE asian gets covered in the 'simulated AASI' component?

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  8. #4635
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    Quote Originally Posted by poi View Post
    The closest distance is a useful tool... “check fit” during nmonte modeling. Even the nMonte3 R screipt outputs 8 closest distances, but the online tool outputs (upto)100. What censored probably meant was that the “text results” get long due to the inclusion and makes it hard to copy-paste. But users can simply remove that part when pasting.
    Yes it does esp scrolling between samples can get cumbersome at times, but it is important to see distances none the less.

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  10. #4636
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    Quote Originally Posted by poi View Post
    The closest distance is a useful tool... “check fit” during nmonte modeling. Even the nMonte3 R screipt outputs 8 closest distances, but the online tool outputs (upto)100. What censored probably meant was that the “text results” get long due to the inclusion and makes it hard to copy-paste. But users can simply remove that part when pasting.
    Perhaps users can have an option to show individual distances or not with a button.

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  12. #4637
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arlus View Post
    I get a little SE Asian related ancestry in almost all calculators but it doesn't show up in g25 (i have tried simulated AA, Thai). Could that actually be my excess AASI showing up as SE Asian in those Admixture calculators or my SE asian gets covered in the 'simulated AASI' component?
    Try with Gond. I tried simulating you, and yes couldn't see any East Asian. Best was under 1%, most runs didn't even do that.

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  14. #4638
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    Quote Originally Posted by DMXX View Post
    Agreed on all counts.

    Based on my fiddling around with G25 data and after reading through Narasimhan, "AASI" looks to largely be a quasi-ENA entity specific to the Subcontinent that lacked Iranian agriculturalist ancestry (which separates it from "ASI").

    That doesn't exclude the possibility of additional cryptic ancestry. IMO, based on what I've seen with G25, there's very likely to be some WSHG-related ancestry embedded within even "AASI". I proposed a somewhat plausible model for a pre-Iran_N WSHG entry into the Subcontinent several years ago (back when all we had was "ANE"), where at least one wave of Eurasian HG's possessing Y-DNA R2(b?) and mtDNA U2 reached the Sindh-Punjab region during the Upper Paleolithic/Epipaleolithic, where climate change (increased aridity) pushed them deeper southeast into the Subcontinent's heart. There's some archaeological evidence in support of this idea (different microlith culture appears in NW S Asia in the UP relative to the MP; has some connections with other parts of Eurasia, including C. Asia).

    There's also the possibility of deep para-Austro-Asiatic ancestry. As I've commented on several times in this thread, AA's origins remain ambiguous (on both linguistic and human genetic grounds), and the involvement of its' proto-speakers (or a para-AA clade) with the earliest non-Eurasian HG's who contributed to the bulk of "AASI" remains unknown. There are multiple possibilities with that one. Truthfully, I have no current ideas regarding this (and I don't think anyone with a balanced view on the topic should have any firm convictions either, too many "unknown unknowns").

    In sum, "AASI" IMO looks to mostly approximate that quasi-ENA entity that was represented by the Subcontinent's first AMH HG's, but there's reason to suspect additional sources of cryptic ancestry.
    The first AMH HGs would've been more like Ust-Ishim if anything though, right? And they were probably replaced by an East Asian relative of Southeast Asian Aboriginal groups, but whether through a migration from the east or an ethnogenesis on the subcontinent I have no idea. Not long after that would've been the ANE/WSHG-carrying HGs giving their contribution, presumably followed by agriculturalists from the near east and at this point would be the earliest ethnogenesis of the Onge. Though the timing could be a little mixed up.

    For the other person commenting: The non-East Asian half of Onge plots right on or near the Paniya so they're as good a substitute as any for "ASI" (not "AASI").
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  16. #4639
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr_McNinja View Post
    The first AMH HGs would've been more like Ust-Ishim if anything though, right? And they were probably replaced by an East Asian relative of Southeast Asian Aboriginal groups, but whether through a migration from the east or an ethnogenesis on the subcontinent I have no idea. Not long after that would've been the ANE/WSHG-carrying HGs giving their contribution, presumably followed by agriculturalists from the near east and at this point would be the earliest ethnogenesis of the Onge. Though the timing could be a little mixed up.

    For the other person commenting: The non-East Asian half of Onge plots right on or near the Paniya so they're as good a substitute as any for "ASI" (not "AASI").
    Along with being more east Asian shifted, Onge seems to be more Ust_Ishm and Oceanian shifted and less Ganj Dareh shifted than Paniya.

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  18. #4640
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    Quote Originally Posted by Censored View Post
    Along with being more east Asian shifted, Onge seems to be more Ust_Ishm and Oceanian shifted and less Ganj Dareh shifted than Paniya.
    You are right, and this is because of the lack of basal eurasian (from the absence of IranN ancestry in Onge, that is present in Paniya) and the extra crown eurasian/Ust_Ishim affinity that comes with it.
    Onge is actually very slightly closer to Villabruna than Paniya is, because of this.

    I believe the Onge- - - - - Australian - - - Papuan cline is because ot archaic ancestry though, otherwise these groups should have been far more similar on paper.
    Last edited by client; 05-16-2019 at 08:20 AM.

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