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Thread: Global25 automated nMonte for South/Central Asian members

  1. #3801
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    Quote Originally Posted by pegasus View Post
    Random samples with different Turan/Eastern Iranian related proxies.

    Model Sample Details Fit Map Gonur1 BA Naxi Saidu Sharif IA O Sintashta MLBA

    Gonur1_BA +Naxi +Saidu_Sharif_IA_o +Sintashta_MLBA Custom:AGUser_KhanaUncle 1.897 Open Map 52.5 3.33 33.33 10.83
    Gonur1_BA +Naxi +Saidu_Sharif_IA_o +Sintashta_MLBA Kamboj:KJ_09 1.6266 Open Map 44.17 2.5 31.67 21.67

    With Dza1

    Model Sample Details Fit Map Dzharkutan1 BA Naxi Saidu Sharif IA O Sintashta MLBA
    1 Dzharkutan1_BA +Naxi +Saidu_Sharif_IA_o +Sintashta_MLBA Custom:AGUser_KhanaUncle 2.0209 Open Map 52.5 3.33 34.17 10
    2 Dzharkutan1_BA +Naxi +Saidu_Sharif_IA_o +Sintashta_MLBA Kamboj:KJ_09 1.6993 Open Map 42.5 1.67 33.33 22.5


    With IVCp

    Model Sample Details Fit Map Dzharkutan1 BA IVCp Naxi Sintashta MLBA
    1 Dzharkutan1_BA +IVCp +Naxi +Sintashta_MLBA Custom:AGUser_KhanaUncle 2.4356 Open Map 25 55 4.17 15.83
    2 Dzharkutan1_BA +IVCp +Naxi +Sintashta_MLBA Kamboj:KJ_09 2.3499 Open Map 17.5 50.83 4.17 27.5

    With SIS1

    Model Sample Details Fit Map Naxi Saidu Sharif IA O Shahr I Sokhta BA1 Sintashta MLBA
    1 Naxi +Saidu_Sharif_IA_o +Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1 +Sintashta_MLBA Custom:AGUser_KhanaUncle 1.7571 Open Map 3.33 31.67 47.5 17.5
    2 Naxi +Saidu_Sharif_IA_o +Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1 +Sintashta_MLBA Kamboj:KJ_09 1.8848 Open Map 2.5 30.83 38.33 28.33
    Could you also model in a similar way Pashtuns and Baluchs? For them i would also add some reference population representing admixture from the western Iranian plateau (Hasanlu_IA like DMXX suggested).
    Y-DNA: R1a> R-M417> R-Z645> R-Z93> R-Z94> R-Y3 (Sredny Stog culture)> R-L657> R-Y4(Andronovo)> R-Y6> R-Y5> R-Y920* (Pashtun)

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  3. #3802
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coldmountains View Post
    Could you also model in a similar way Pashtuns and Baluchs? For them i would also add some reference population representing admixture from the western Iranian plateau (Hasanlu_IA like DMXX suggested).
    Try these:

    Code:
    	Model	Sample	Details	Fit	Map	Dzharkutan1 BA	Han	Hasanlu IA	Simulated ASI NW By DMXX	Sintashta MLBA	Udegram IA
    1	Dzharkutan1_BA +Han +Hasanlu_IA +Simulated_ASI_NW_by_DMXX +Sintashta_MLBA +Udegram_IA	Balochi:Average		3.0572	Open Map	46	0.4	2.8	0.4	4	46.4
    2	Dzharkutan1_BA +Han +Hasanlu_IA +Simulated_ASI_NW_by_DMXX +Sintashta_MLBA +Udegram_IA	Balochi:S_Balochi-1		3.0301	Open Map	21.8	0	2.6	0.2	0	75.4
    3	Dzharkutan1_BA +Han +Hasanlu_IA +Simulated_ASI_NW_by_DMXX +Sintashta_MLBA +Udegram_IA	Custom:AGUser_Kaido		1.4332	Open Map	13.6	2	2	3.2	7.8	71.4
    4	Dzharkutan1_BA +Han +Hasanlu_IA +Simulated_ASI_NW_by_DMXX +Sintashta_MLBA +Udegram_IA	Pashtun:Average		1.1043	Open Map	16	3	2	2	14.4	62.6
    5	Dzharkutan1_BA +Han +Hasanlu_IA +Simulated_ASI_NW_by_DMXX +Sintashta_MLBA +Udegram_IA	Pashtun:surbakhun_AGUser		2.3678	Open Map	29	3.2	4.2	0	13.2	50.4

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  5. #3803
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    *delete
    Last edited by Coldmountains; 01-12-2019 at 09:39 AM.
    Y-DNA: R1a> R-M417> R-Z645> R-Z93> R-Z94> R-Y3 (Sredny Stog culture)> R-L657> R-Y4(Andronovo)> R-Y6> R-Y5> R-Y920* (Pashtun)

  6. #3804
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    Quote Originally Posted by DMXX View Post
    Yeah, I've intermittently read into this since we last discussed it.

    I don't think the Tarim is a likely vector for it - The bulk of the movements between the Pamirs and the Tarim are west-to-east, not vice versa. There's reason to suspect it was transmitted south by MLBA steppe groups, either through Darra-i-Kur type admixture, or an unsampled population that remained on the steppes (I still think Keltaminar culture is the prime suspect here - See this).

    By the way, why aren't you giving my AASI phantoms any love man? Are you worried it'll make everyone look 90% Kurdish or 66.66% Lithuanian?
    Some of the Yamnaya-like admixture was probably also brought back by Turks and Saka from the northwest, who mixed with Afanasievo-admixed populations. I suspect that Andronovo was not the first steppe culture in Central Asia and that some Yamnaya-derived tribes already arrived in small numbers there. Unfortunately the Darra-i-Kur sample is damaged so not much can be said about it and the found R1b is maybe not real but as far as i know it already had some EHG admixture or ?
    Last edited by Coldmountains; 01-12-2019 at 09:50 AM.
    Y-DNA: R1a> R-M417> R-Z645> R-Z93> R-Z94> R-Y3 (Sredny Stog culture)> R-L657> R-Y4(Andronovo)> R-Y6> R-Y5> R-Y920* (Pashtun)

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  8. #3805
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    Quote Originally Posted by DMXX View Post
    Try these:

    Code:
    	Model	Sample	Details	Fit	Map	Dzharkutan1 BA	Han	Hasanlu IA	Simulated ASI NW By DMXX	Sintashta MLBA	Udegram IA
    1	Dzharkutan1_BA +Han +Hasanlu_IA +Simulated_ASI_NW_by_DMXX +Sintashta_MLBA +Udegram_IA	Balochi:Average		3.0572	Open Map	46	0.4	2.8	0.4	4	46.4
    2	Dzharkutan1_BA +Han +Hasanlu_IA +Simulated_ASI_NW_by_DMXX +Sintashta_MLBA +Udegram_IA	Balochi:S_Balochi-1		3.0301	Open Map	21.8	0	2.6	0.2	0	75.4
    3	Dzharkutan1_BA +Han +Hasanlu_IA +Simulated_ASI_NW_by_DMXX +Sintashta_MLBA +Udegram_IA	Custom:AGUser_Kaido		1.4332	Open Map	13.6	2	2	3.2	7.8	71.4
    4	Dzharkutan1_BA +Han +Hasanlu_IA +Simulated_ASI_NW_by_DMXX +Sintashta_MLBA +Udegram_IA	Pashtun:Average		1.1043	Open Map	16	3	2	2	14.4	62.6
    5	Dzharkutan1_BA +Han +Hasanlu_IA +Simulated_ASI_NW_by_DMXX +Sintashta_MLBA +Udegram_IA	Pashtun:surbakhun_AGUser		2.3678	Open Map	29	3.2	4.2	0	13.2	50.4
    Thanks very much. I expected more post-Bronze Age gene flow from the Western Iranian plateau especially for Baluchs but maybe some of it is captured by Dzharkutan. How Dzharkutan can be modelled? What happens when Udegram gets removed and replaced by Shar i Sokhta 1?
    Y-DNA: R1a> R-M417> R-Z645> R-Z93> R-Z94> R-Y3 (Sredny Stog culture)> R-L657> R-Y4(Andronovo)> R-Y6> R-Y5> R-Y920* (Pashtun)

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  10. #3806
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coldmountains View Post
    Thanks very much. I expected more post-Bronze Age gene flow from the Western Iranian plateau especially for Baluchs but maybe some of it is captured by Dzharkutan. How Dzharkutan can be modelled? What happens when Udegram gets removed and replaced by Shar i Sokhta 1?
    Code:
    	Model	Sample	Details	Fit	Map	Afanasievo	Han	Hasanlu IA	Shahr I Sokhta BA1	Simulated ASI NW By DMXX	Sintashta MLBA
    1	Afanasievo +Han +Hasanlu_IA +Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1 +Simulated_ASI_NW_by_DMXX +Sintashta_MLBA	Balochi:Average		3.1084	Open Map	2	3.8	12	68.2	3.4	10.6
    2	Afanasievo +Han +Hasanlu_IA +Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1 +Simulated_ASI_NW_by_DMXX +Sintashta_MLBA	Balochi:S_Balochi-1		3.2041	Open Map	3.8	4.6	8	67.4	7.8	8.4
    3	Afanasievo +Han +Hasanlu_IA +Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1 +Simulated_ASI_NW_by_DMXX +Sintashta_MLBA	Custom:AGUser_Kaido		3.2578	Open Map	10.4	7.4	6	56.6	7.2	12.4
    4	Afanasievo +Han +Hasanlu_IA +Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1 +Simulated_ASI_NW_by_DMXX +Sintashta_MLBA	Pashtun:Average		2.7501	Open Map	12	7.2	8.4	51.8	5.6	15
    5	Afanasievo +Han +Hasanlu_IA +Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1 +Simulated_ASI_NW_by_DMXX +Sintashta_MLBA	Pashtun:surbakhun_AGUser		2.5606	Open Map	10.6	6	15.6	49.4	3.8	14.6

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  12. #3807
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coldmountains View Post
    Some of the Yamnaya-like admixture was probably also brought back by Turks and Saka from the northwest, who mixed with Afanasievo-admixed populations. I suspect that Andronovo was not the first steppe culture in Central Asia and that some Yamnaya-derived tribes already arrived in small numbers there. Unfortunately the Darra-i-Kur sample is damaged so not much can be said about it and the found R1b is maybe not real but as far as i know it already had some EHG admixture or ?
    The Kushan Empire was founded by the Yuezhi who were pushed out of China and are a likely source of admixture like the Turks and Saka you mentioned

  13. #3808
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coldmountains View Post
    Could you also model in a similar way Pashtuns and Baluchs? For them i would also add some reference population representing admixture from the western Iranian plateau (Hasanlu_IA like DMXX suggested).
    Baloch prefer it because they have Seh Gabi ancestry, which is largely lacking in Pashtuns save for some in the South.
    Here with Pashtun members they don't score any their fits got worse even. Which makes sense most of them are largely just Steppe shifted versions of the Udegram/Loebanr/Barikot but with no extra AASI.

    Model Sample Details Fit Map Bustan BA Hasanlu IA Naxi Saidu Sharif IA O Sintashta MLBA
    1 Bustan_BA +Hasanlu_IA +Naxi +Saidu_Sharif_IA_o +Sintashta_MLBA Custom:AGUser_Kaido 1.7817 Open Map 50.83 0 4.17 28.33 16.67
    2 Bustan_BA +Hasanlu_IA +Naxi +Saidu_Sharif_IA_o +Sintashta_MLBA Pashai_Dardic:VelvetNono_AGUser 2.1275 Open Map 55.83 0 3.33 23.33 17.5

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  15. #3809
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    Quote Originally Posted by DMXX View Post
    Everyone's steppe ancestry is mostly Sintashta-derived, though some people (like jatshorean) have significant amounts of EMBA steppe (he has the most I've seen so far at ~10%). There's a similar trend in some West Asians (NW Iranians are mostly Sintashta-derived, but there's cryptic EMBA steppe in Kura Araxes, which "we" generally prefer).

    Aside from what poi's observed in some Nepali Brahmins, I haven't really seen other Subcontinental groups scoring any EMBA steppe. It looks like a para-SC Asian phenomenon.
    What about the Kalash? Going by their antiquity of admixture (161 generations), their steppe must be in large part EMBA, though the Narasimhan paper models it only with MLBA.

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  17. #3810
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    I know I am late but as far as all the talk about clines and who is “distinct” from who else, I would just say that the same rules should apply to those populations within clines as those outside them. Clines are meaningless when they are so massive and I really don’t think that Kalash are much like a person from Bihar even if they’re somehow part of the same Cline. Genetic distances matter, and if there is a large distance(what counts as large itself is subjective to an extent) between two individuals or two pops, then they are indeed distinct from each other regardless of whether they’re on the same cline or not.

    When you’re talking about ancient populations as diverged as AASI which is East Eurasian and Onge like and steppe which is similar to white Europeans, it doesn’t really make sense to just go by ratios of who has what. We probably wouldn’t use the same logic to other parts of our lives, so why here?

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