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Thread: Global25 automated nMonte for South/Central Asian members

  1. #8851
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    Quote Originally Posted by heksindhi View Post
    My current thinking is somewhat along the same lines. The core IVC region seems to have been completely depopulated by the late Bronze age. Most of this population appears to have migrated to the south (Gujarat) and east (Haryana) leaving the regions comprising today's Sindh and Western Punjab nearly empty. This would have been particularly true of the southern Indus valley assuming the collapse of the IVC was climate change related. The modern populations of these regions seem to be a composite of Indus Aryan migration down the Indus river valley overlaid with back-migrations from the east (Rajasthan) and the west (Balochistan).
    This resonates so well with what qpAdm is showing because the depopulation seems to have led to considerable homogenization. What is interesting is the Proto urban collapse in Central Asia actually led to a population explosion as an adoption of Agro-pastoralist methods and acculturation with IIr groups rejuvenated the region and a new cultural zeitgeist takes hold.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cynic View Post
    The steppe ancestry for Hindu and Sikh Indians like Brahmins and Jats comes from Indo-Aryans not nomadic central Asian types like Sakhas or Kangjus who are heavily WSHG and East Asian admixed. They can't be the vectors for steppe ancestry for them. Some Muslim groups might have Turkic ancestry which can artificially and vaguely resemble these Iron Age central Asian groups.
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  5. #8853
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cynic View Post
    The steppe ancestry for Hindu and Sikh Indians like Brahmins and Jats comes from Indo-Aryans not nomadic central Asian types like Sakhas or Kangjus who are heavily WSHG and East Asian admixed. They can't be the vectors for steppe ancestry for them. Some Muslim groups might have Turkic ancestry which can artificially and vaguely resemble these Iron Age central Asian groups.
    I am wondering where do neighbouring Pakistanis fit into all of this? I guess they lean more towards Afghans?

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  7. #8854
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    Quote Originally Posted by MonkeyDLuffy View Post
    Welcome back Censored
    Censored is uncensored now.
    Last edited by pegasus; 08-01-2021 at 08:22 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by laltota View Post
    I am wondering where do neighbouring Pakistanis fit into all of this? I guess they lean more towards Afghans?
    The genetics change the moment you cross the border. For some reason I feel like I've said this before, in response to a banned user.

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  11. #8856
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    Quote Originally Posted by pegasus View Post
    Kangjus are not Sakas ,they are Sogdians lol , and they work as proxies but if one has a basic understanding of statistics, and qpAdm, its easy to see why their profile type would be pretty close to the real McCoy. To the contrary, some other Indo Aryan variants would be significantly WSHG/KGZ BA enriched. If you use Sakas, Kushans or any other Nomadic CA group, the model fails really badly. If you bother to read my earlier post, I stated till L657/Z2123 Painted Ware samples are found these work as great proxies and given the high tail values of those modern populations, they will be very similar.
    Apologies for being a little nitpicky but the Kangju weren't really 'a people', more like a fairly decentralized state/kingdom with many dependencies which included both nomadic and sedentary peoples.

    The Kangju rulers were described as being quite like their contempary steppe nomad neighbours. Archaeology shows this too with the kurgan burial mounds associated with the elite Kangju.

    I wouldn't say they are just Sogdians, especially when some of the samples show a considerable amount of iron age steppe ancestry. Cynic is not entirely wrong the list the Kangju amongst the likes of the Saka.
    Last edited by CopperAxe; 08-01-2021 at 08:40 AM.

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  13. #8857
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    Quote Originally Posted by laltota View Post
    I am wondering where do neighbouring Pakistanis fit into all of this? I guess they lean more towards Afghans?
    The only ones who lean towards Afghans(Iím assuming you mean Afghan Pashtuns) would be the Pashtun and close related neighboring groups. There is no Afghan genetic profile, thereís Hazaras, Uzbeks, Pashtuns, and others while the Tajiks are the bridge between all these groups as they have a massive range.

    The Indus was the boundary of India historically and it divides Pakistan into east and west in other words two broad cultural zones. The eastern sections can be seen as an extension of India.
    Last edited by Cynic; 08-01-2021 at 08:45 AM.

  14. #8858
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    Quote Originally Posted by CopperAxe View Post
    Apologies for being a littpe nitpicly but the Kangju weren't really a people, more like a fairly decentralized state/kingdom with many dependencies which included both nomadic and sedentary peoples.

    The Kangju rulers were described as being quite like their contempary steppe nomad neighbours. Archaeology shows this too with the kurgan burial mounds associated with the elite Kangju.

    I wouldn't say they are just Sogdians, especially when some of the samples show a considerable amount of iron age steppe ancestry. Cynic is not entirely wrong the list the Kangju amongst the likes of the Saka.
    Semantics aside. The crux of it all is, the profile of the samples used are typical of Sogdians , I am aware there is diversity among them and the other Oratar samples simply do not work. QpAdm is incredibly drift resistant , minute variations can cause the model to fail or have significantly lower tail values. I should have worded myself better because I know you are very particular about this.
    Last edited by pegasus; 08-01-2021 at 07:28 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cynic View Post
    The only ones who lean towards Afghans(I’m assuming you mean Afghan Pashtuns) would be the Pashtun and close related neighboring groups. There is no Afghan genetic profile, there’s Hazaras, Uzbeks, Pashtuns, and others while the Tajiks are the bridge between all these groups as they have a massive range.

    The Indus was the boundary of India historically and it divides Pakistan into east and west in other words two broad cultural zones. The eastern sections can be seen as an extension of India.
    For whatever reason, genetics don’t care about a river or geographic/cultural terms. The diverged nature of AASI made it into South Central Asia and Southeast Iran. Even the retroflex of Indo Aryan languages also made it into Pashto/Pakhto.
    Last edited by Sapporo; 08-01-2021 at 08:58 AM.
    pegasus modeling:
    sample": "Punjabi_Jat:Sapporo_AGUser",
    "fit": 1.1506,
    "IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA3": 43.33,
    "TKM_Gonur1_BA": 31.67,
    "RUS_Sintashta_MLBA": 25,
    "closestDistances": [

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  18. #8860
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sapporo View Post
    For whatever reason, genetics don’t care about a river. The diverged nature of AASI made it into South Central Asia and Southeast Iran. The retroflex of Indo Aryan languages also made it into Pashto/Pakhto.
    The second part of the comment concerns culture and history, not genetics. People hundreds of years ago had no clue what “AASI” was and the existence of a south Asian substrate in eastern Iran and Afghanistan does not change how those people identify culturally. Sistanis and Bandaris are hardcore Persians, Kunaris are hardcore Pashtuns.

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