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Thread: Global25 automated nMonte for South/Central Asian members

  1. #2501
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmoney View Post
    How did you reach that conclusion? Sintashta was formed with European Globular Amphora admixture so provided South Asians with European admixture

    Look at the arrow going right from Steppe EMBA in Eastern Europe to Steppe MLBA in Russia
    No, you misunderstood. I'm asking if Sintashta itself had an impact on Europe, not the other way around.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Censored View Post
    No, you misunderstood. I'm asking if Sintashta itself had an impact on Europe, not the other way around.
    yeah, it formed there.

    Not sure how much compared to the other cultures ask Parasar or Generallissimo

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    Quote Originally Posted by bmoney View Post
    Im not sure how new the study is, but it also has tables in there which refer to figures from older studies so Im guessing its relatively new

    Heres the link vishankar posted in another thread:

    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...uKvTNUsgD2V29u
    It appears the data was mostly taken from Wells et al (2001) paper which I came to know just yesterday thanks to your post and also the user vishankar's another post in another K9 ASI thread. I have to check out all these more.

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  5. #2504
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmoney View Post
    @anthroin you given up on the peninsula origin for Dravidian yet
    Whatever man let's try and make those stupid Dravidians come from Shani graham if you are too game along with me. Lol! And partially true what you wrote- I'm personally moving more and more away from my earlier considerations that the Dravidian languages might have come to the peninsula with pastoralists from Indus neolithic at 3000-2500 BC towards the belief that they may have come from pastoralists and farmers migrated from somewhere in the northwestern direction to the peninsula after Indus civilisation collapse. I have personally quite never tended to believe that the Dravidian languages originated in the peninsula with some type of people of predominantly AASI ancestry.

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    Quote Originally Posted by anthroin View Post
    Whatever man let's try and make those stupid Dravidians come from Shani graham if you are too game along with me. Lol! And partially true what you wrote- I'm personally moving more and more away from my earlier considerations that the Dravidian languages might have come to the peninsula with pastoralists from Indus neolithic at 3000-2500 BC towards the belief that they may have come from pastoralists and farmers migrated from somewhere in the northwestern direction to the peninsula after Indus civilisation collapse. I have personally quite never tended to believe that the Dravidian languages originated in the peninsula with some type of people of predominantly AASI ancestry.
    Do you think Witzel will shut up about his Munda IVC theory now given that O2a-M95 was directly quoted in the paper as a Munda marker, and the timeframe of the migration doesn't match the IVC

    Dating of the arrival of the Austro-Asiatic speakers in South Asia-based on Y chromosome haplogroup O2a1-M95 expansion estimates yielded dates between 3000 and 2000 BCE [30]. However, admixture LD decay-based approach on genome-wide data suggests the admixture between South Asian and incoming Austro-Asiatic speakers occurred slightly later between 1800 and 0 BCE (Tätte et al. submitted). It is interesting that while the mtDNA variants of the Mundas are completely South Asian, the Y chromosome variation is dominated at >60% by haplogroup O2a which is phylogeographically nested in East Asian-specific paternal lineages.

    https://indo-european.eu/2018/10/the...oto-dravidian/

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    Quote Originally Posted by bmoney View Post
    Do you think Witzel will shut up about his Munda IVC theory now given that O2a-M95 was directly quoted in the paper as a Munda marker, and the timeframe of the migration doesn't match the IVC

    Dating of the arrival of the Austro-Asiatic speakers in South Asia-based on Y chromosome haplogroup O2a1-M95 expansion estimates yielded dates between 3000 and 2000 BCE [30]. However, admixture LD decay-based approach on genome-wide data suggests the admixture between South Asian and incoming Austro-Asiatic speakers occurred slightly later between 1800 and 0 BCE (Tätte et al. submitted). It is interesting that while the mtDNA variants of the Mundas are completely South Asian, the Y chromosome variation is dominated at >60% by haplogroup O2a which is phylogeographically nested in East Asian-specific paternal lineages.

    https://indo-european.eu/2018/10/the...oto-dravidian/
    You should ask him that! I think these some scholars do have their biases which quite often they are required to maintain (not because of any concerns like saving face and things like that but because they just genuines believe that it may be true) so it is probably a matter of time, as obviously he probably will move with evidence only eventually. Like the difficulty I'm facing even as an amateur, trying to submit more and more to the hegemony of geneticists regarding the Brahui question. The fact of the matter is that the contribution made by Michael Witzel is also very substantial regarding this specific question and some etymologies given by him from his Para-Austroasiatic to some Indus words do seem plausible, on the surface level, if not anything else. The matter is not anyhow fully settled among Dravidian linguists as well though the general inclination is to entertain the notion of immigrant Dravidian languages from the Indus civilisation quite favourably, as it is definitely quite reasonable. The problem comes because many non-Indo-European-origin words of the Rig Veda having not been proposed clinching etymologies from any family, be it Dravidian or Austroasiatic or anything else. The user sudkol once mentioned that those words seeming to have prefix-like entities were considered as having arisen because of Dravidian compounding by some Dravidian linguists. But the major problem is that they are not thoroughly commented upon by other linguists and philologists (at least it appears to me that way or that field just moves slowly). Then there is the highly respected Late Kuiper who also tended to profess a view that the civilisation may have had Para-Austroasiatic speakers. According to him, there is an entire hymn in the Rig Veda (or some other Veda) that was probably composed by a bilingual Vedic Sanskrit-Austroasiatic-speaking individual. Very intriguing but his paper is not accessible to me. Maybe the users sudkol or Vaishvamitra can help us in this regard. I certain request them to enlighten us more about this specific bilingual hymn thing (sorry if it seems that I used this as a venue to make possible my siphoning off of a valuable piece of information for free lol)
    Last edited by anthroin; 10-11-2018 at 05:36 PM.

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  11. #2507
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    Quote Originally Posted by anthroin View Post
    You should ask him that! I think these some scholars do have their biases which quite often they are required to maintain (not because of any concerns like saving face and things like that but because they just genuines believe that it may be true) so it is probably a matter of time, as obviously he probably will move with evidence only eventually. Like the difficulty I'm facing even as an amateur, trying to submit more and more to the hegemony of geneticists regarding the Brahui question. The fact of the matter is that the contribution made by Michael Witzel is also very substantial regarding this specific question and some etymologies given by him from his Para-Austroasiatic to some Indus words do seem plausible, on the surface level, if not anything else. The matter is not anyhow fully settled among Dravidian linguists as well though the general inclination is to entertain the notion of immigrant Dravidian languages from the Indus civilisation quite favourably, as it is definitely quite reasonable. The problem comes because many non-Indo-European-origin words of the Rig Veda have not been proposed clinching etymologies from any family, be it Dravidian or Austroasiatic or anything else. The user sudkol once mentioned that those words seeming to have prefix-like entities were considered as having arisen because of Dravidian compounding by some Dravidian linguists. But the major problem is that they are not thoroughly commented upon by other linguists and philologists (at least it appears to me that way or that field just moves slowly). Then there is the highly respected Late Kuiper who also tended to profess a view that the civilisation may have had Para-Austroasiatic speakers. According to him, there is an entire hymn in the Rig Veda (or some other Veda) that was probably composed by a bilingual Vedic Sanskrit-Austroasiatic-speaking individual. Very intriguing but his paper is not accessible to me. Maybe the users sudkol or Vaishvamitra can help us in this regard. I certain request them to enlighten us more about this specific bilingual hymn thing (sorry if it seems that I used this as a venue to make possible my siphoning off of a valuable piece of information for free lol)
    what about the language x of the BMAC? it fits as the retroflex candidate given Nursitani, Burushashki, Dravidian, Indo-Aryan, Eastern Iranian (even Ishkashimi), Munda all have it and were within its sphere of influence directly or via proxy
    Last edited by bmoney; 10-11-2018 at 01:07 PM.

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  13. #2508
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    Just wanted to point out- there is a technical term called "Language X" within the context of Indian linguistics where it refers to an inferred prehistoric language currently extinct and has no relatives, and hypothesised to have been spoken somewhere either in the Gangetic plains or the Indus region at the time of Indo-Aryan migrations. This language lent some agricultural substrate vocabulary to almost definitely Hindi but also possibly other Indo-Aryan languages like Marathi and Gujarati.

    I don't know much about the hypothesised pre-Indo-European language(s) of BMAC to be of significant help. Whether they reconstructed retroflexes for those languages or not, I have no idea too. The only thing I know is that some supposedly non-Indo-European-origin words in Indo-Iranian languages attested in both the Indic and the Iranic branches were considered by some to have been taken from the hypothetical BMAC language(s), which everybody knows.

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    Quote Originally Posted by anthroin View Post
    You should ask him that! I think these some scholars do have their biases which quite often they are required to maintain (not because of any concerns like saving face and things like that but because they just genuines believe that it may be true) so it is probably a matter of time, as obviously he probably will move with evidence only eventually. Like the difficulty I'm facing even as an amateur, trying to submit more and more to the hegemony of geneticists regarding the Brahui question. The fact of the matter is that the contribution made by Michael Witzel is also very substantial regarding this specific question and some etymologies given by him from his Para-Austroasiatic to some Indus words do seem plausible, on the surface level, if not anything else. The matter is not anyhow fully settled among Dravidian linguists as well though the general inclination is to entertain the notion of immigrant Dravidian languages from the Indus civilisation quite favourably, as it is definitely quite reasonable. The problem comes because many non-Indo-European-origin words of the Rig Veda having not been proposed clinching etymologies from any family, be it Dravidian or Austroasiatic or anything else. The user sudkol once mentioned that those words seeming to have prefix-like entities were considered as having arisen because of Dravidian compounding by some Dravidian linguists. But the major problem is that they are not thoroughly commented upon by other linguists and philologists (at least it appears to me that way or that field just moves slowly). Then there is the highly respected Late Kuiper who also tended to profess a view that the civilisation may have had Para-Austroasiatic speakers. According to him, there is an entire hymn in the Rig Veda (or some other Veda) that was probably composed by a bilingual Vedic Sanskrit-Austroasiatic-speaking individual. Very intriguing but his paper is not accessible to me. Maybe the users sudkol or Vaishvamitra can help us in this regard. I certain request them to enlighten us more about this specific bilingual hymn thing (sorry if it seems that I used this as a venue to make possible my siphoning off of a valuable piece of information for free lol)
    https://ia801900.us.archive.org/17/i...n-Sanskrit.pdf
    https://ia800104.us.archive.org/33/i...r%20F.B.J..pdf

    Counter:
    http://www.himalayanlanguages.org/fi...ic%20Indus.pdf

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  17. #2510
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    Quote Originally Posted by misanthropy View Post
    Can someone with the upgraded privileges on poi's online nmonte tool run some of the past nmonte runs of interior Indians from the last few pages in this thread, this time with misanthropy_brother added? I wanna see how he stacks up.

    Edit: meant to post this in the g25 thread
    l.jpg

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