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Thread: Global25 automated nMonte for South/Central Asian members

  1. #4861
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    Quote Originally Posted by Censored View Post
    Yes I know it inflates it in nMonte but I'm asking if the values in the supplements of the Narasimhan was also skewed for that reason. Especially since people here like to cite those same values. They used formal stats that's why Im wondering.
    Yeah I think it is best not to quote values from that paper. I mean we’ve Gedmatch and nMonte that gives more accurate results than that paper.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pnb123 View Post
    Yeah I think it is best not to quote values from that paper. I mean we’ve Gedmatch and nMonte that gives more accurate results than that paper.
    I would take formal stats over these.

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    I'm not in any position to question or even comment on formal population genetics stats (basically no experience in it), but I can certainly comment on the modeling being used.

    One issue with Narasimhan that I'm sure of is that their 3-way modeling using Steppe-IVCp-OngeAASI does not work as nicely for ethnic groups like Nepali Bahuns that clearly have ~7% direct East Asian from ATB descended groups. So, I'm pretty sure the Bahuns' Narasimhan OngeAASI lumps East Asia, thus inflating OngeAASI a bit. Otherwise, their modeling makes Bahuns almost identical to UttarPradesh Brahmins, but everything else shows much lower EastAsian and higher AASI for UP Brahmins.

    As far as ANE "inflating" Steppe in the Narasimhan modeling, I find it hard to believe because non-Steppe ANE (already present in South Asia) should go to IVCp and may be even OngeAASI and not inflate Steppe much at all.

    Basically, Narasimhan 2018's focus appear to be distinguishing Brahmins from other groups (both fellow interior SouthAsians as well as periphery ones like Kalash) using the Steppe-IranN ratio differences. That was why they had every type of Brahmin groups(for eg: Christian/Catholic Brahmins etc) from all over India. We should wait for more data and a formal release of the paper or new papers that might use other types of modeling. The simulated OngeAASI can be problematic in itself.
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    Quote Originally Posted by parasar View Post
    I would take formal stats over these.
    Anyways I was just expressing my opinion on this paper. We’ve had many g25 runs that invalidate this paper. Many samples in this paper were mislabeled & many ethnic groups include in the paper have funky results when checked against Gedmatch and g25. Who knows what other things are wrong with this paper.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coldmountains View Post
    Sintashta is from Corded Ware and Z93 too. We have no dna from eastern Corded Ware yet (Fatyanovo, Abashevo) so the lack of Z93 does not mean really anything. Also Z93 was found in Sredny Stog and Sintashta was basically a genetic copy of Corded Ware and Sredny Stog. There is no reason to assume Sintashta is from Yamnaya and it is pretty clear that Sintashta was intrusive from the forest-steppe/forest-regions more in the northwest (Abashevo)
    We have M417 (not sure if that sample is Z93+) from Sredny Stog and Z2121 from Poltavka period (in the Potapovka 1 cemetery which is an important cemetery of Sintashta culture era), and therefore there is no need to look for Sintashta's Z93 to Z2124 trail in CW, even if Z93 is found in Fatyanovo and Abashevo, when it is right under.

    We do have Yamna type R1b (absent in CW) in Sintashta.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pnb123 View Post
    Anyways I was just expressing my opinion on this paper. We’ve had many g25 runs that invalidate this paper. Many samples in this paper were mislabeled & many ethnic groups include in the paper have funky results when checked against Gedmatch and g25. Who knows what other things are wrong with this paper.
    Any example of mislabeling?
    There is one error in coordinates, but even for that location the labeling looks fine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by parasar View Post
    Any example of mislabeling?
    There is one error in coordinates, but even for that location the labeling looks fine.
    I know you refuse to accept it even after we've so many results from nmonte, gedmatch etc, but the Jatt samples were clearly mislabeled. Anyone who has idea about South Asian genetics, know they messed up the collection process.
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    Quote Originally Posted by parasar View Post
    We have M417 (not sure if that sample is Z93+) from Sredny Stog and Z2121 from Poltavka period (in the Potapovka 1 cemetery which is an important cemetery of Sintashta culture era), and therefore there is no need to look for Sintashta's Z93 to Z2124 trail in CW, even if Z93 is found in Fatyanovo and Abashevo, when it is right under.

    We do have Yamna type R1b (absent in CW) in Sintashta.
    He is an outliner and probably a foreigner or an early immigrant of the Abashevo tribes which replaced Poltavka there. The site is also very close to the forest-steppe region and on theborder region between CWC- and Yamnaya-derived tribes. Sintashta is pretty surely not from Yamnaya. We already discussed this many times here. The autosomal and y-dna doesn not match. Also Sintashta shows archaelogical links to Abashevo and has EEF-ancestry and the material culture of Fatyanovo and Abashevo has GAC influences and they will pretty surely show similar amounts of EEF admixture like Sintashta. R1b in Sintashta is from assimilated locals.
    Y-DNA: R1a> R-M417> R-Z645> R-Z93> R-Z94> R-Y3 (Sredny Stog culture)> R-L657> R-Y4(Andronovo)> R-Y6> R-Y5> R-Y920* (Pashtun)

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  13. #4869
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    Quote Originally Posted by MonkeyDLuffy View Post
    I know you refuse to accept it even after we've so many results from nmonte, gedmatch etc, but the Jatt samples were clearly mislabeled. Anyone who has idea about South Asian genetics, know they messed up the collection process.
    G25 master data sheet also has a PunjabJatt which I had to label as an outlier. Iím not sure where Davidski got that sample. It could simply be that Punjab Jatt as a group is not as homogeneous and there are outlying individuals and groups. Rather than mislabeling, it could be the case of inadequate sampling.

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    Quote Originally Posted by poi View Post
    G25 master data sheet also has a PunjabJatt which I had to label as an outlier. I’m not sure where Davidski got that sample. It could simply be that Punjab Jatt as a group is not as homogeneous and there are outlying individuals and groups. Rather than mislabeling, it could be the case of inadequate sampling.
    The confusion comes from not having a local person collecting samples. They were collected from a Hospital in Bathinda. It's very common for Dalits in Punjab to use Jatt surnames, and looking at the results, they seem to be part of the samples. The Punjabi jatt outlier might be Drmcninja, because I believe David has his data. Can you post a run of the outlier?
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