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Thread: Global25 automated nMonte for South/Central Asian members

  1. #7301
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    Quote Originally Posted by MonkeyDLuffy View Post
    Brahmin from NE Mongolia? What?

    Also what wave it could be associated with? Did it arrive with rest of L657 lines? Or different clades arrived at different time?
    Yes that is what the paper noted of that Xiongnu chief.
    "the autosomal profile of MNX3 West Eurasian male is 14 times more probable from a Brahmin Indian than from a modern Caucasian (Table 6)"

    Though he was likely a follower of the Buddh. He was mtDNA U2e1 which is more prevalent in the NW.
    "The DNA analyses revealed that one subject was an ancient male skeleton with maternal U2e1 and paternal R1a1 haplogroups. This is the first genetic evidence that a male of distinctive Indo-European lineages (R1a1) was present in the Xiongnu of Mongolia."

    More likely that Y7 spread out of than arrived into South Asia.

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  3. #7302
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    Quote Originally Posted by parasar View Post
    Yes that is what the paper noted of that Xiongnu chief.
    "the autosomal profile of MNX3 West Eurasian male is 14 times more probable from a Brahmin Indian than from a modern Caucasian (Table 6)"

    Though he was likely a follower of the Buddh. He was mtDNA U2e1 which is more prevalent in the NW.
    "The DNA analyses revealed that one subject was an ancient male skeleton with maternal U2e1 and paternal R1a1 haplogroups. This is the first genetic evidence that a male of distinctive Indo-European lineages (R1a1) was present in the Xiongnu of Mongolia."

    More likely that Y7 spread out of than arrived into South Asia.
    “14 times more probable from a Brahmin than a Caucasian”, so definitely SouthAsia derived. Regarding the specific group, did they mean “Brahmin” because of L657 or because of something else?

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  5. #7304
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    Quote Originally Posted by poi View Post
    “14 times more probable from a Brahmin than a Caucasian”, so definitely SouthAsia derived. Regarding the specific group, did they mean “Brahmin” because of L657 or because of something else?
    Even autosomally some Brahmins have good amount of archaic Siberia genomes. So not just Y-DNA but also some of autosomal matter which might or might not be reflected in the mtDNA
    Y: H-M69 -> H-M82 -> SK1225 -> H-Z5888 -> H-Z5890 -> H-CTS8144 [CTS8144/PF1741/M5498] -> Z34531 (H1a1a4b3b1a8~)
    found 2875 BCE -> Jiroft/IVC Periphery 11459 Shahr-i-Sokte BA2
    mtDNA:U2a1a

    G25 Ancients Dist 1.0 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2 88.4 MAR_Taforalt 2.6NPL_Mebrak 5
    VK2020_SWE_Gotland_VA 4 Hidden Content

    Lactose Persistence rs3213871 rs4988243 rs4988183 rs3769005 rs2236783
    found -> DA125, Kangju

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  7. #7305
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    Anyone else find that there's a greater affinity for Eastern Steppe type samples (Wusun, Kangju, etc) among SPGT and derived populations than other South Asians (Jatts, Rors, Haryana/UP Jats, Brahmins, etc) who prefer MLBA/Sintashta-type populations?

    I also used Iran_N, Bustan_BA, SiS_BA2, Onge, Ulchi.
    Paternal - Y-DNA: J2b2* (J-M241) Z2432+ Z2433+ Y978+ (J2b2a2b1*) (Hidden Content ) (YFull: YF02959) (FTDNA Kit B6225), mtDNA: M18a* (FTDNA Kit 329180) (YFull: YF63773)
    Maternal- Y-DNA: R1a1a1b2a1a2c2d5a* L657+ Y7+ (R-Y16494*) (FTDNA Kit 311047) (YFull: YF68408), mtDNA: Hidden Content (FTDNA Kit B6225) (YFull: YF02959) (Mother's Mother's Father: R1a1a1b2a1a2c2* Y7+ Y29+ (R-Y29*) (FTDNA Kit 329181) (YFull: YF65256))

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  9. #7306
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    Quote Originally Posted by parasar View Post
    Yes that is what the paper noted of that Xiongnu chief.
    "the autosomal profile of MNX3 West Eurasian male is 14 times more probable from a Brahmin Indian than from a modern Caucasian (Table 6)"

    Though he was likely a follower of the Buddh. He was mtDNA U2e1 which is more prevalent in the NW.
    "The DNA analyses revealed that one subject was an ancient male skeleton with maternal U2e1 and paternal R1a1 haplogroups. This is the first genetic evidence that a male of distinctive Indo-European lineages (R1a1) was present in the Xiongnu of Mongolia."

    More likely that Y7 spread out of than arrived into South Asia.
    Not surprised at all, the Tarim Basin was heavily influenced by Gandharan and even Buddhist groups in the Maghada region so landing in Mongolia is not far fetched at all. Probably explains the L657 in Uyghurs and Kazakhs and it likely just back migrated there. Below is a rough model overall ,on GD they have around 10-12% Katelai ancestry.

    "sample": "Uygur:Average",
    "fit": 1.2643,
    "MNG_Xiong_Nu_East_Asian": 35,
    "KAZ_Kangju": 34.17,
    "PAK_Katelai_IA": 17.5,
    "MNG_Hovsgol_BA": 12.5,
    "IND_Roopkund_A": 0.83,

    The only relic pop in Tarim would be Sarikoli speaking Tajiks but I used Shugni Tajiks since linguistically they are the closest

    "sample": "Tajik_Shugnan:Average",
    "fit": 0.8671,
    "KAZ_Kangju": 68.33,
    "PAK_Katelai_IA": 31.67,
    Last edited by pegasus; 05-22-2020 at 10:22 PM.

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  11. #7307
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr_McNinja View Post
    Anyone else find that there's a greater affinity for Eastern Steppe type samples (Wusun, Kangju, etc) among SPGT and derived populations than other South Asians (Jatts, Rors, Haryana/UP Jats, Brahmins, etc) who prefer MLBA/Sintashta-type populations?

    I also used Iran_N, Bustan_BA, SiS_BA2, Onge, Ulchi.
    I thought Eastern steppe groups works better for most of us than Sintashta types.

  12. #7308
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    @DNinja

    Its because of that ENA in the Kangju but 2 of the samples in Kangju work as proxies also the reason why on qpAdm they could not be rejected as sources , though some Punjabi Jats model best with Kangju , it eliminates using BMAC and Steppe source individually also so you get very parsimonious models. Though they model best with SPGT related populations I agree.

    "sample": "Punjabi_Jatt:Jatt1_a_AGUser",
    "fit": 1.6388,
    "IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2": 60,
    "KAZ_Kangju": 31.67,
    "KAZ_Oy_Dzhaylau_MLBA": 8.33,

    "sample": "Punjabi_Jatt:Jatt1_a_AGUser",
    "fit": 1.6921,
    "IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2": 57.5,
    "KAZ_Kangju": 42.5,

    "sample": "Punjabi_Jatt:Jatt1_b_AGUser",
    "fit": 1.7516,
    "IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2": 58.33,
    "KAZ_Kangju": 41.67,
    "closestDistances": [

    So while they don't actually descend from Kangju, the profile they have is relatively close to what their Indo Aryan progenitors would have been (assuming it was one wave). Sappali Tepe outlier and one of the Kushans are 2kya apart but have almost the same exact profile.

    So based of ratios in Rors, Jats and Brahmins a more Kumsay EBA shifted version of this sample will be it

    "sample": "KAZ_Kangju: DA121",
    "fit": 1.9324,
    "CustomGroup_CentralSteppeMLBA": 65,
    "UZB_Dzharkutan1_BA": 33.33,
    "NPL_Chokhopani_2700BP": 1.67,
    Last edited by pegasus; 05-23-2020 at 01:01 AM.

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  14. #7309
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    Quote Originally Posted by pegasus View Post
    it eliminates using BMAC and Steppe source individually also so you get very parsimonious models.
    That's a good point. I still include BMAC, Iran_N and sometimes a later Iranian if there's Afghans, Iranians and Tajiks in the run, and then the distances are lower when having more components.

    I just ran

    Code:
    Steppe_RUS_Sintashta_MLBA,0.125389,0.1158031,0.0572615,0.0789266,0.011327,0.0284468,0.005678,0.0041909,-0.0174834,-0.0282348,-0.0024254,0.0012473,-0.0030739,-0.0212915,0.0226566,0.0124762,-0.0050555,0.0004086,-6.9e-05,-0.0007423,-0.0059089,0.0020542,0.0026159,0.0066506,-0.0039363
    Steppe-KAZ_Kangju,0.1005438,0.0499302,0.015839,0.046835,-0.0333907,0.018128,0.0029375,0.0015385,-0.0258383,-0.032529,-0.0053315,-0.003347,0.000347,-0.0217213,0.0182543,0.0171262,-0.0010215,-0.0001268,-0.0012777,-0.0039602,-0.008901,0.0008243,0.0008422,0.0032132,-0.0020358
    Iran-N_Ganj_Dareh_N,0.0440117,0.0680407,-0.1537397,0.0023687,-0.1218687,0.0190573,0.017391,-0.0033073,-0.0830367,-0.0554,-0.000325,-0.0047957,0.0061447,-0.009496,0.029587,0.0588257,-0.008084,0.0098817,0.0111033,-0.036226,0.0094003,-0.02708,-0.0116263,-0.037917,0.025746
    BMAC_UZB_Bustan_BA,0.0823317,0.0809038,-0.1135133,0.0062447,-0.093043,0.019987,0.0068153,-0.0022307,-0.0583915,-0.0345033,0.000839,0.001049,0.003543,-0.0057113,0.0099755,0.0221645,-0.0081273,0.0036528,0.0063687,-0.0195927,-0.0014973,-0.0113143,-0.0044985,-0.020083,0.0069455
    InPe_IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2,0.043708,-0.0327002,-0.170006,0.0950268,-0.1047582,0.0568936,0.0063452,0.0041998,0.0056858,0.0067428,-0.0051964,0.0079128,-0.0018436,-0.0031928,0.0098534,0.0097852,-0.0023732,0.0025084,0.0016342,-0.0142568,0.0029694,-0.0125136,-0.0011832,-0.0119052,0.001317
    Onge,-0.0225251,-0.2445288,-0.1324289,0.095965,0.0299327,-0.0047557,-0.0076438,0.0075786,0.0548233,0.0244388,0.023495,0.0032182,-0.0040608,0.0084746,-0.0126933,-0.0111446,0.010918,-0.0016203,-0.0059807,0.0288295,-0.0037107,0.0096905,-0.0128242,-0.0011225,0.0043426
    Ulchi,0.0290248,-0.4423646,0.08225,-0.0350132,-0.0651505,-0.0429213,0.011022,0.0137071,0.0116783,0.017604,-0.0215815,0.0026228,-0.0021705,0.0004678,-0.0088489,-0.0068947,0.0012778,0.0097298,0.0222864,0.0147696,0.0185921,-0.039037,-0.0133231,0.0079407,-0.0054007
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Paternal - Y-DNA: J2b2* (J-M241) Z2432+ Z2433+ Y978+ (J2b2a2b1*) (Hidden Content ) (YFull: YF02959) (FTDNA Kit B6225), mtDNA: M18a* (FTDNA Kit 329180) (YFull: YF63773)
    Maternal- Y-DNA: R1a1a1b2a1a2c2d5a* L657+ Y7+ (R-Y16494*) (FTDNA Kit 311047) (YFull: YF68408), mtDNA: Hidden Content (FTDNA Kit B6225) (YFull: YF02959) (Mother's Mother's Father: R1a1a1b2a1a2c2* Y7+ Y29+ (R-Y29*) (FTDNA Kit 329181) (YFull: YF65256))

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  16. #7310
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    Quote Originally Posted by pegasus View Post
    Not surprised at all, the Tarim Basin was heavily influenced by Gandharan and even Buddhist groups in the Maghada region so landing in Mongolia is not far fetched at all. Probably explains the L657 in Uyghurs and Kazakhs and it likely just back migrated there. Below is a rough model overall ,on GD they have around 10-12% Katelai ancestry.

    "sample": "Uygur:Average",
    "fit": 1.2643,
    "MNG_Xiong_Nu_East_Asian": 35,
    "KAZ_Kangju": 34.17,
    "PAK_Katelai_IA": 17.5,
    "MNG_Hovsgol_BA": 12.5,
    "IND_Roopkund_A": 0.83,

    The only relic pop in Tarim would be Sarikoli speaking Tajiks but I used Shugni Tajiks since linguistically they are the closest

    "sample": "Tajik_Shugnan:Average",
    "fit": 0.8671,
    "KAZ_Kangju": 68.33,
    "PAK_Katelai_IA": 31.67,
    No doubt about the cultural impact and Buddhist era geneflow in the Tarim basin but there was ASI/IVC-like admixture already among BMAC samples and Pamiri as group living not close to urban centres of Bactria or Sogdia would be in my opinion not so much effected by urban migrations from South Asia. All Pamiri and especially Ishkashimi show this kind of IVC-like admix and the closer they are too Afghanistan the higher it becomes so it not looks like it is just from Buddhist era admixture. Probably from various sources and some of it is from Neolithic or Bronze Age-related groups further (south)east than most of the sampled BMAC samples yet.
    Last edited by Coldmountains; 05-23-2020 at 06:51 AM.

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