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Thread: Central Asian component in Dravidian Speaker

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudkol View Post
    Can someone tell me which is the most accurate way to get my Y-chromosome haplogroup from Ancestry raw data ? And also, I don't see the K14 Ancient populations option in GED match. Where can I find these ?
    Submit your raw ancestry data to wegene. It gives you an ancestry breakdown, neanderthal percentage, and y/mt-dna haplogroups
    https://www.wegene.com

    you can also use the morley y-dna predictor. They both give the same results anyways so you can try both
    https://ytree.morleydna.com/

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  3. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kulin View Post
    Your results look typical for a Brahmin. South Indian Brahmins have a northern origin, with some local admixture and your results seem to reflect that.
    His much higher Caucasian to Euro score is actually atypical for a Brahmin (scratching my head) but yes his (relatively speaking) low SI, low Baloch, high NE Euro + Med score indicates Gangetic Brahmin origin (at least partially)
    Last edited by bmoney; 05-15-2018 at 12:56 AM.
    Ancients nmonte: [1] "distance%=2.5068": Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA3,80, Srubnaya_MLBA,12.6, Hajji_Firuz_Chl,6.8, Dai,0.6

    SC Asian ancients with the same uniparental lines:
    Y-dna: BMAC Bustan_BA K1a1 L1a, BMAC Sappali_Tepe_BA U7a3 L1a, Pakistan_IA_Aligrama_all L1a, Loebanr_IA_father T2g1 L1a, SPGT Loebanr_IA L1a, SPGT Loebanr_IA R30b1 L1a, SPGT Loebanr_IA L1a, Saidu Sharif_IA R6b L1a
    Mtdna: Butkara_IA M30b J1, Butkara_IA M30b, Udegram_IA M30+16234, Saidu_Sharif_IA M30, Saidu_Sharif_IA M30d1

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    Quote Originally Posted by sudkol View Post
    Thanks for all the replies. I am trying to convince others in my family to take the test just to see if they get the central asian component as well. My mixed mode population sharing results are-
    man your oracles are weird both for a South Indian and a Brahmin, and they are pretty tight (below 1.5)

    Using 2 populations approximation:
    1 50% hallaki_reich +50% pathan_hgdp 1.248963

    you're modelled has half low caste South Indian (looked up Hallaki scores on HAP) and half HGDP Pathan (high Caucasian and Baloch tilt, medium NE Euro compared to Caucasian, very low SI)

    I'm not sure if your North Indian mix is only via Brahmins as they don't seem to have similar profiles. There might be a case for a more diverse mix
    Ancients nmonte: [1] "distance%=2.5068": Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA3,80, Srubnaya_MLBA,12.6, Hajji_Firuz_Chl,6.8, Dai,0.6

    SC Asian ancients with the same uniparental lines:
    Y-dna: BMAC Bustan_BA K1a1 L1a, BMAC Sappali_Tepe_BA U7a3 L1a, Pakistan_IA_Aligrama_all L1a, Loebanr_IA_father T2g1 L1a, SPGT Loebanr_IA L1a, SPGT Loebanr_IA R30b1 L1a, SPGT Loebanr_IA L1a, Saidu Sharif_IA R6b L1a
    Mtdna: Butkara_IA M30b J1, Butkara_IA M30b, Udegram_IA M30+16234, Saidu_Sharif_IA M30, Saidu_Sharif_IA M30d1

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  7. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmoney View Post
    man your oracles are weird both for a South Indian and a Brahmin, and they are pretty tight (below 1.5)

    Using 2 populations approximation:
    1 50% hallaki_reich +50% pathan_hgdp 1.248963

    you're modelled has half low caste South Indian (looked up Hallaki scores on HAP) and half HGDP Pathan (high Caucasian and Baloch tilt, medium NE Euro compared to Caucasian, very low SI)

    I'm not sure if your North Indian mix is only via Brahmins as they don't seem to have similar profiles. There might be a case for a more diverse mix
    true. He's 10% caucasus shifted compared to southern brahmins. If he was more northern/steppe shifted he should get some euro population but he gets west asian/caucasus so that's interesting. I've seen this shift only among some kerala muslims/christians rather than any hindu upper castes in south india so it's quite interesting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kush View Post
    true. He's 10% caucasus shifted compared to southern brahmins. If he was more northern/steppe shifted he should get some euro population but he gets west asian/caucasus so that's interesting. I've seen this shift only among some kerala muslims/christians rather than any hindu upper castes in south india so it's quite interesting.
    Yes the Syrian Christian/Kerala Muslim shift.. no idea what the source could be
    Ancients nmonte: [1] "distance%=2.5068": Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA3,80, Srubnaya_MLBA,12.6, Hajji_Firuz_Chl,6.8, Dai,0.6

    SC Asian ancients with the same uniparental lines:
    Y-dna: BMAC Bustan_BA K1a1 L1a, BMAC Sappali_Tepe_BA U7a3 L1a, Pakistan_IA_Aligrama_all L1a, Loebanr_IA_father T2g1 L1a, SPGT Loebanr_IA L1a, SPGT Loebanr_IA R30b1 L1a, SPGT Loebanr_IA L1a, Saidu Sharif_IA R6b L1a
    Mtdna: Butkara_IA M30b J1, Butkara_IA M30b, Udegram_IA M30+16234, Saidu_Sharif_IA M30, Saidu_Sharif_IA M30d1

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    Quote Originally Posted by sudkol View Post
    1 cochin-jew_behar + kalash_hgdp + madiga_reich + rajasthani-brahmin_harappa 0.817369
    2 gujarati-muslim_harappa + kashmiri-pandit_reich + north-kannadi_chaubey + singapore-indian-c_sgvp 0.906006
    3 lambadi_metspalu + north-kannadi_chaubey + pathan_hgdp + pathan_hgdp 1.000420
    4 ap-mala_xing + gujarati-muslim_harappa + kashmiri-pandit_reich + punjabi-brahmin_harappa 1.023092
    Have you tried Kurd's K14 Geneplaza Ancient Cultures test? Here's an example (mine). Also could you post oracle results of Gedmatch Eurogenes - Jtest? Thanks.

    CENTRAL & SOUTH ASIAN - 77.1%
    Turan-Central - 10.6%
    Indus Valley Civilization - 41.5%
    Ancestral Ancient South Asian - 25.0%

    EAST ASIAN - 8.0%

    EURASIAN STEPPE - 6.0%
    STEPPE-MLBA-WESTERN - 4.1%
    Siberian Hunter Gatherer - 1.9%
    STEPPE-MLBA-EASTERN - 0.0%
    Central & Eastern Scythians - 0.0%

    EUROPEAN - 5.0%
    Bell Beakers - 2.7%
    Western European Hunter Gatherers - 0.0%
    European Neolithic Farmers - 2.3%
    Latvian Hunter Gatherers - 0.0%

    SUB-SAHARAN AFRICAN - 2.8%

    WESTERN EURASIAN STEPPE - 1.2%
    Kura-Araxes - 1.2%

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  12. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlg View Post
    Have you tried Kurd's K14 Geneplaza Ancient Cultures test? Here's an example (mine). Also could you post oracle results of Gedmatch Eurogenes - Jtest? Thanks.
    Thanks all for the comments. Indeed, my results look very unusual. I've been reading about DNA stuff over the last few days. And it seems plausible to me that the probabilistic nature of DNA combination can sometimes lead to outliers (as in my case).

    The other possibility is there was some recent admixture event in my background. I talked to my father who told me that it was only in his grandfather's generation that they moved to Telugu land. It is likely that there was an ancestor with a more northern profile- low ASI, lower Baloch, higher Caucasian, higher NEEuro that migrated southwards and married someone from an older generation of migrants with lower NE, lower Caucasian, higher ASI. I guess this would show up in the dna of other family members as well.

    I also read that there were changes in occupations of some gotras in history. For example, Kshatriyas of some gotras became priests and so on. My gotra is Kaushika (another name for Vishwamitra) who was a king to begin with. So, maybe there is some truth to those stories as well.

    My Eurogenes Jtest results are as follows-

    Oracle:

    1 SOUTH_ASIAN 60.8
    2 WEST_ASIAN 18.28
    3 EAST_EURO 8.75
    4 EAST_MED 5.24
    5 EAST_ASIAN 2
    6 SOUTH_BALTIC 1.9
    7 ATLANTIC 1.6
    8 SIBERIAN 0.59
    9 NORTH-CENTRAL_EURO 0.48
    10 EAST_AFRICAN 0.28
    11 MIDDLE_EASTERN 0.05
    12 WEST_AFRICAN 0.03

    # Population (source) Distance
    1 IN 3.65
    2 Gujarati 7.2
    3 Bangladeshi 12.14
    4 Sindhi 12.33
    5 Burusho 21.68
    6 South_Indian 27.25
    7 Kalash 27.83
    8 Balochi 31.28
    9 Brahui 31.96
    10 IR 54.79
    11 Kurdish 57.33
    12 Lezgin 58.31
    13 TR 60.5
    14 IQ 61.8
    15 Mandean 63.4
    16 Armenian 64.05
    17 RO 64.19
    18 Serbian 64.45
    19 Assyrian 64.72
    20 South_Italian_&_Sicilian 64.88

    # Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
    1 69.1% Sindhi + 30.9% South_Indian 1.96
    2 91.6% IN + 8.4% Brahui 2.19
    3 95.2% IN + 4.8% Kurdish 2.22
    4 91.5% IN + 8.5% Balochi 2.22
    5 95% IN + 5% IR 2.24
    6 95.8% IN + 4.2% Assyrian 2.28
    7 95.7% IN + 4.3% Armenian 2.29
    8 95.7% IN + 4.3% Mandean 2.3
    9 96.2% IN + 3.8% Druze 2.34
    10 95.6% IN + 4.4% TR 2.36
    11 96% IN + 4% GE 2.41
    12 95.8% IN + 4.2% IQ 2.47
    13 81.8% IN + 18.2% Sindhi 2.47
    14 96.5% IN + 3.5% Samaritan 2.52
    15 95.7% IN + 4.3% Lezgin 2.55
    16 96.2% IN + 3.8% GR 2.58
    17 96.4% IN + 3.6% South_Italian_&_Sicilian 2.71
    18 89.9% IN + 10.1% Burusho 2.72
    19 96.5% IN + 3.5% RO 2.84
    20 89.3% Gujarati + 10.7% IR 2.91

    Oracle-4

    1 SOUTH_ASIAN 60.80
    2 WEST_ASIAN 18.28
    3 EAST_EURO 8.75
    4 EAST_MED 5.24
    5 EAST_ASIAN 2.00
    6 SOUTH_BALTIC 1.90
    7 ATLANTIC 1.60

    Using 1 population approximation:
    1 IN 4.065296
    2 Gujarati 7.737767
    3 Bangladeshi 11.959711
    4 Sindhi 13.325686
    5 Burusho 22.699234
    6 South_Indian 29.411032
    7 Kalash 30.167257
    8 Balochi 33.954269
    9 Brahui 34.730339
    10 IR 59.185257
    11 Kurdish 61.972519
    12 Lezgin 62.329929
    13 TR 64.789566
    14 IQ 67.041130
    15 RO 68.215866
    16 Serbian 68.572792
    17 Mandean 68.979713
    18 Armenian 69.203407
    19 South_Italian_&_Sicilian 69.391548
    20 KZ 69.816574

    Using 2 populations approximation:
    1 50% Kalash + 50% South_Indian 4.044340


    Using 3 populations approximation:
    1 50% IN +25% IN +25% Sindhi 2.941376


    Using 4 populations approximation:
    +++++++++++++++++
    1 Balochi + Kalash + South_Indian + South_Indian 2.330311
    2 Brahui + Kalash + South_Indian + South_Indian 2.453085
    3 Balochi + IN + IN + South_Indian 2.487145
    4 IN + Sindhi + Sindhi + South_Indian 2.493819
    5 Brahui + IN + IN + South_Indian 2.603655
    6 Balochi + Gujarati + IN + South_Indian 2.623976
    7 Brahui + Gujarati + IN + South_Indian 2.651469
    8 Burusho + Gujarati + Sindhi + South_Indian 2.799906
    9 Burusho + IN + Sindhi + South_Indian 2.866666
    10 IN + IN + IN + Sindhi 2.941376
    11 Bangladeshi + IN + IN + Sindhi 3.060207
    12 Brahui + Gujarati + Gujarati + South_Indian 3.096273
    13 Bangladeshi + Gujarati + IN + Sindhi 3.101556
    14 Gujarati + IN + IN + Sindhi 3.106471
    15 Balochi + Gujarati + Gujarati + South_Indian 3.142883
    16 Gujarati + Sindhi + Sindhi + South_Indian 3.199061
    17 Gujarati + Lezgin + South_Indian + South_Indian 3.314575
    18 Sindhi + Sindhi + Sindhi + South_Indian 3.316502
    19 Bangladeshi + Gujarati + Gujarati + Sindhi 3.495280
    20 Gujarati + Gujarati + IN + Sindhi 3.595482

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    Ok. I did my Y-DNA haplogroup prediction using the Morley calculator. I got J2b2 M241. Isn't that surprising ?

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  16. #19
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    And mt DNA haplogroup is H2a2a1

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    Quote Originally Posted by sudkol View Post
    Ok. I did my Y-DNA haplogroup prediction using the Morley calculator. I got J2b2 M241. Isn't that surprising ?
    M241 is present in India. Here's the yfull tree https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-M241/. I was expecting to see AJ in the Jtest given that Harappa reported Jewish connection. You clearly have significantly high middle eastern, central asian genetics.
    Last edited by mlg; 05-16-2018 at 05:10 PM.
    God hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth (Acts 17:26).
    Behold, the nations are as a drop of a bucket, and are counted as the small dust of the balance. (Isaiah 40:15)
    Yea, all kings shall fall down before him: all nations shall serve him. (Psalm 72:11).

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