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Thread: The genetic prehistory of the Greater Caucasus[preprint Harvard/Jena]

  1. #1291
    So what is the deal with Steppe Maykop? I keep seeing on Eurogenes all this West Siberian Neolithic talk, but what samples are they deriving this ancestral component from? I cannot find anything online about it. What is it exactly? How do they even differentiate the ANE in these samples? So what is the difference between Steppe Maykop, West Siberian Neoltihic, and Botai? Botai has East Eurasian admixture and the others don't? There is also the presence of EDAR in the Steppe Maykop, as well as in the Mesolithic Motala hunter gatherers of Sweden and in Karelia. Could we be looking at something connected to the spread of mtDNA C1 and Y-DNA R/Q during the Upper Paleolithic or was this also a gene present in the earliest West Eurasians/Paleo-Europeans, but due to selection, it has been diluted to non-existence in most of Europe? One thing is for sure, much of this could be solved if we simply had more ancient East Eurasian samples.
    Last edited by Jack Johnson; 03-01-2019 at 07:33 AM.

  2. #1292
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    West Siberia Neolithic were hunter gatherers from 8200-5900 BP. They were mostly ANE/EHG-related, but had substantial East Asian admixture, best modelled here by the Mongol-like Baikal Neolithic sample "Shamanka".

    "sample": "Test1:West_Siberia_N",
    "fit": 3.9983,
    "AfontovaGora3": 69.17,
    "EHG": 19.17,
    "Shamanka_N": 11.67,


    The Botai horse herders from 5500-5000 BP seemed to derive 2/3 of their ancestry from these WSHGs, but were more
    "Asian"-shifted.

    "sample": "Test1:Botai",
    "fit": 1.8917,
    "West_Siberia_N": 67.5,
    "AfontovaGora3": 22.5,
    "Shamanka_N": 10,


    Interesting, you can model Steppe Maykop with Botai instead of WSHG, and this model is more parsimonious because it's only a two-way mixture (61% Piedmont Eneolithic + 39% Botai) instead of a 3 way mixture involving Geoksur/Sarazim. I can't speak to how archaeologically sound this is because Botai was basically contemporary with Steppe Maykop. Left a comment on David's blog asking about this...


    "sample": "Test1:Steppe_Maykop",
    "fit": 2.0084,
    "Botai": 39.17,
    "Progress_Eneolithic": 32.5,
    "Vonyuchka_Eneolithic": 28.33

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Johnson View Post
    So what is the deal with Steppe Maykop?
    Here you go http://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2019/0...op-enigma.html
    YDNA - E-Y31991>PF4428>BY36857. Domingos Rodrigues, b. circa 1680 Hidden Content , Viana do Castelo, Portugal
    mtDNA - H20. Maria Josefa de Almeida, b. circa 1750 Hidden Content , Porto, Portugal

    Global25 PCA West Eurasia dataset Hidden Content
    Hidden Content


    [1] "distance%=1.7679"

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  6. #1294
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    Might be interesting...

    Maykop: a multi-ethnic layer cake?

    Last edited by Generalissimo; 03-02-2019 at 09:03 AM.

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  8. #1295
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Johnson View Post
    So what is the deal with Steppe Maykop? I keep seeing on Eurogenes all this West Siberian Neolithic talk, but what samples are they deriving this ancestral component from? I cannot find anything online about it. What is it exactly? How do they even differentiate the ANE in these samples? So what is the difference between Steppe Maykop, West Siberian Neoltihic, and Botai? Botai has East Eurasian admixture and the others don't? There is also the presence of EDAR in the Steppe Maykop, as well as in the Mesolithic Motala hunter gatherers of Sweden and in Karelia. Could we be looking at something connected to the spread of mtDNA C1 and Y-DNA R/Q during the Upper Paleolithic or was this also a gene present in the earliest West Eurasians/Paleo-Europeans, but due to selection, it has been diluted to non-existence in most of Europe? One thing is for sure, much of this could be solved if we simply had more ancient East Eurasian samples.
    Take whatever you read on Eurogenes with the tiniest pinch of salt. They go on about as if half of the world’s languages and cultures developed in a tiny area north of the Black Sea and Caspian.

    They are not scientists or academics, just hobbyists who tinker around with some statistical tools and come up with explanations that tickle their fancy. It’s a diversionary way of learning the basics of anthrogenetics but don’t expect the consistency of serious research.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Johnson View Post
    So what is the deal with Steppe Maykop? I keep seeing on Eurogenes all this West Siberian Neolithic talk, but what samples are they deriving this ancestral component from? I cannot find anything online about it.
    West_Siberia_N:
    https://www.biorxiv.org/content/bior...92581.full.pdf
    https://www.biorxiv.org/content/bior...1/292581-1.pdf (lines 55-68)
    En North alom, de North venom
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    Quote Originally Posted by talljimmy0 View Post
    Take whatever you read on Eurogenes with the tiniest pinch of salt. They go on about as if half of the world’s languages and cultures developed in a tiny area north of the Black Sea and Caspian.

    They are not scientists or academics, just hobbyists who tinker around with some statistical tools and come up with explanations that tickle their fancy. It’s a diversionary way of learning the basics of anthrogenetics but don’t expect the consistency of serious research.
    Talk, Jimmy, talk...
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  13. #1298
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    Quote Originally Posted by K33 View Post
    West Siberia Neolithic were hunter gatherers from 8200-5900 BP. They were mostly ANE/EHG-related, but had substantial East Asian admixture, best modelled here by the Mongol-like Baikal Neolithic sample "Shamanka".
    Even if they have east asian admixture, I think it could not be connected to modern East asian like mongol.
    The anthro data explains that they are not related with east asian, but it seems to be with american Indian.
    can we know when the east asian admixture happened?

    Most Neolithic populations of the Cis-Baikal region are intermediate, and the same appliesto the Lugovskoy population. CV II scores in BolshoyOleniy Island group are close to those shown by people of Western Siberia and the Altai (Fig. 2)
    Last edited by johen; 03-02-2019 at 11:51 PM.

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