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Thread: The genetic prehistory of the Greater Caucasus[preprint Harvard/Jena]

  1. #1001
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    According to A’s post, Maikop yDNA is the following:
    G2a2a-PF3147
    J
    J2a1a1a2b2a3b1a-Y11200
    J2a1a1a2b2a3b1-Y3020
    J1-L255
    K
    L2-L595
    L2-L595
    L2-L595
    T1-L206
    R1a1/R1a1b-M459
    Q1b2b1b2-L933

    On a general level, the difference between Northeast and Northwest Caucasians is the high frequency of G2a2b2a-P303 in West Caucasians and the high frequency of J1 in East Caucasians (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3355373/). However, if Maikop G is G2a2a-PF3147, it seems to be a tiny subclade with samples indicating British Isles, Turkish and Lebanese ancestries. If it is instead G2a2b2a-P303, then it would indicate some continuity with Northwest Caucasian. If J-Y11200 and J-Y3020 are correct, both are today found in Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Kabardino-Balkaria, Georgia and Dagestan. The highest J2-M67 frequency is in Chechens and Ingush. Today L is rare in Caucasus, but they however carry four different subclades L*, L1a1-M27, L1b-M317, L1a2-M357. However, Maikop L is rare L2 which is today found in Turkey and Sardinia.
    I would not say that Maikop spoke Northwest Caucasian on the basis of their yDNA .

    I had a look at the Georgian yDNA in Battaglia et al: http://www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/v...hg2008249a.pdf
    On a quick look, Georgian yDNA is a better match with Maikop:
    G2a 30%
    J1 4.5%
    J2a-M67 18%
    T 1.5%
    R1a1 10.5%
    Q 1.1%

    Therefore, I would rather argue that on the basis of their yDNA Maikop spoke Georgian.

    As for the Maikop mtDNA, there are the following correspondences with the modern populations:
    EBA Maikop Krasnodar Krai U8b1a2 - Ashkenazi Jews, Basque country, Algeria
    EBA Maikop Adygea Caucasus M52 - India
    Maykop Marinskaya 5 MK5007.B0101 U5a1b1 - Europe, India
    Maykop Baksanenok I1720 HV
    Maykop Novosvobodnaya U1b, U1b1 - Near East, Mediterranean Europe (U1b1)
    Maykop Novosvobodnaya Klady I6268 R1a - Northwest Caucasians
    Maykop Novosvobodnaya Klady I6267 T2c1 - Europe, Near East
    Maykop Novosvobodnaya Klady I6266 X2f - Caucasus
    Maykop Nogir Ossetia OSS001.A0101 J2a1 - Europe, in particular Sardinia
    Maykop Nogir 3 Ossetia OSS002.B0101 I5 - Europe, Near East
    Late Maykop Sinyukha 3 x U4c1 - Eastern Europe, Iran
    Late Maykop Marinskaya 5 T2a1 - Europe, Near East
    Late Maykop Marinskaya 5 T1a2 - Near East, Volga Ural
    Late Maykop Marinskaya 5 K1a4 - Europe, Near East, Iran

    Both Northwest and Northeast Caucasian have a lot of mtDNA H, but there oddly seems to be no H in Maikop so far! There is H2a1 in Steppe Maikop only.
    Last edited by Kristiina; 01-10-2019 at 07:24 AM.

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  3. #1002
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    Yeah, Kartvelian, or at least, partly Kartvelian is possible.

    But I wouldn't get too hung up on ultra specific subclades considering that we're dealing with such a diverse gene pool in terms of uniparental markers, and a lot can happen in 5,000 years in such a mountainous and tribal area.

    My first impression was that the Meshoko and Maykop genomes looked like Northwest Caucasians in terms of genome-wide structure, minus the steppe and eastern Asian ancestry that modern Northwest Caucasians have.

    The Y-hg J2a and G2a and mtDNA R1a in Maykop/Meshoko also looked more or less Northwest Caucasian.

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  5. #1003
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    Yes, that's right.

    I checked the ancient yDNA record for G2a2b2a-P303 and found the following:
    LCA Hungary Protoboleranz Abony Turjányos-dűlő GEN60/I2788 G2a2b2a-P303
    Barcın Marmara Turkey I0744/BarM5 G2a2b2a-P303
    Barcın is in northwest Turkey, so that would point to the area between Hungary and northwest Turkey as the area of expansion of G2a2b2a-P303.

    This is what Wikipedia indicates about the NW Caucasian G:
    "The next largest subclade of G-P303 is characterized by the presence of the U1 mutation. But a high percentage of U1 men belong to its two subclades, G-L13/S13 and Z1266 (G2a3b1a1b). The G-L13 subclade is most common in north central Europe, and G-Z1266 is most common in the western Caucasus Mountains."

    The frequency of G-P303 in northwest Caucasians is the following:
    Shapsug 86%
    Abkhaz 20.7%
    Circassians 29.6%

    So IMO G-P303 must have played a role in the formation of NW Caucasian languages at least on a substrate level.

    North Caucasian yDNA.GIF
    Last edited by Kristiina; 01-10-2019 at 10:05 AM.

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  7. #1004
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    What are the most common Y-haplogroups in Abkhazians?

    They're interesting, because they're the least admixed Northwest Caucasian speakers.

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  9. #1005
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    Quote Originally Posted by Generalissimo View Post
    What are the most common Y-haplogroups in Abkhazians?

    They're interesting, because they're the least admixed Northwest Caucasian speakers.
    If I remember correctly, Abkhazians have roughly the same proportion of G2a1a-Z6553 and G2a2b2a-P303>U1 (around 20% each).

    EDIT:

    The actual percentages are as follows (n=162):

    G-M201: 47,5 %

    G2a1a-P16/Z6553: 19,1 %

    G2a2b2a-P303>U1: 22,8 %

    https://www.nature.com/articles/ejhg201286
    Last edited by Pribislav; 01-10-2019 at 02:31 PM.

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  11. #1006
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    Autosomally Abkhazians seem to be like Georgians:
    https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/0aa...db629080bf.pdf
    According to Balanovsky et al, their yDNA is the following (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3355373/):
    E 1.7%
    G2a1a-P16 12.1%
    G2a2b2a-P303 20.7%
    J2-M172 5.2%
    J2a1b-M67 6.9%
    J2a1b1-M92 1.7%
    L1b-M317 3.4%
    T1a-M70
    R1a1-M198 10.3%
    R1b-M269 12.1%

    It is possible that there is not much overlap between Maikop yDNA, as it is available at the moment, and Abkhaz yDNA.

    To sum up, on a higher subhaplogroup level, there is a clear similarity of yDNA in the whole larger Caucasus area. However, it is difficult to argue that Maikop yDNA shows a connection with a specific language family.
    Last edited by Kristiina; 01-10-2019 at 02:36 PM.

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  13. #1007
    We can not assign languages to ancient populations based on the Y-dna of modern day populations. We have to look at the languages spoken in the Neolithic, Chalcolithic and Early Bronze Age to define the language that the Maykop people spoke.
    Based on the genetic data we can now define that the Maykop people are people who migrated from southern regions. These southern regions are defined with the area between Southern Caucasus and Mesopotamia.
    Which archaeological culture do the natives of the people from these regions belong to? The Halaf and Ubaid. And their ancestors can be traced until the people of the Gobekli Tepe.
    So what language did the natives of the people from these southern regions speak within the Neolithic, Chalcolithic and Early Bronze Age? The Sumerian language, this is what the Maykop people spoke.

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  15. #1008
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    Abkhazians from the larger sample (n=162) of Yunusbayev et al (2011):

    0.6% E-M78
    48% G2a-P15 - 19% G2a1a-P16, 23% G2a2b2-U1 (modal haplogroup), 6% other
    3% I2-M438 - 2% I2a2a-M223, 0.6% I2a1-P37, 0.6% other
    2.5% J1 - 1.2% J1(xP58), 1.2% J1-P58
    27% J2 - 11% J2a-M67, 15% other J2a-M410, 0.6% J2b-M12
    5% L1a-M76
    0.6% T1a-M70
    0.6% Q-M242
    9% R1a-Z645 - 6% R1a-Z94 (including Z2125), 4% R1a-Z282 (including M458 and CT1211)
    4% R1b-M269 - 3% R1b-L23(xL51), 0.6% R1b-P312(xU152)

    Are Abkhazians less mixed with everyone (including other South Caucasians), or just less mixed with Turks and Russians? They've long been politically united with Georgians and have much more G2a1a (which is most common in Georgians and Ossetians) than Adygeans further north.

    For comparison pooled Adygean speakers (n=662):
    1.2% C-M130, 1.7% N, 0.5% Q
    1.2% E-M35, 0.3% G1-M285, 0.2% H1-M52, 2.4% I-P19
    50% G2a-P15 - ~40% G2a2b-U1 (modal haplogroup), 7% G2a1a-P16, 3% other
    3% J1(xP58), 1.8% J1a2b-P58, 6% J2a-M67, 11% other J2a-M410, 0.8% J2b-M12
    0.3% L-M20* (probably L2-L595), 1% L1(a, b, and c), 0.3% K* (prob T), 0.3% T1a
    0.2% R1a1*(xR1a1a-M198), 0.8% R1b(xM269) incl R1b-M73, 0.2% R2a-M124
    14% R1a1a-M198 - ~5% R1a-Z282 (including M458 and CTS1211), 8% R1a-Z2125, 1% other R1a-Z93
    3% R1b-M269 - ~2.5% R1b-L23(xL51), 0.5% R1b-P312(xU152)

    In all the Northwest Caucasian speakers G2-U1 is the dominant haplogroup. The only G in the sample belongs to rather minor clades, not to either of the common ones today, which are characteristic of Ossetians, Georgians, and Northwest Caucasians. We find J2-CTS900 under M67 and J1-Z1842, which are the majority haplogroups of Nakh and Dagestani speakers (Northeast Caucasian), as well as R1b-Z2103 which is also pretty well represented in Dagestan. R1a1* and L2-L595 in Circassia might be ancient survivals from the Maykop period.

    Of course none of this necessarily matters, as nicely shown by Ossetians who are East Iranic speakers with about 1% R1a-Z93 (less than their non-IE neighbours).
    Last edited by Megalophias; 01-10-2019 at 04:32 PM.

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  17. #1009
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    I had a look at Fig. 2. ADMIXTURE and PCA results of “The genetic prehistory of the Greater Caucasus” (https://www.biorxiv.org/content/early/2018/05/16/322347).

    Steppe Maikop population is not really close to any modern population. The closest points are with Russians and Nogais. Steppe Maikop outliers seem to be closest to modern North Caucasians.
    The closest modern population to Eneolithic Steppe seems to be Kaitag, Adygei and Tabasaran.
    The closest modern population to Dolmen LBA seems to be Turkish.
    Kura Araxes seems to be closest to modern south Caucasians.
    Maikop seems to be more southwestern than Late Maikop and Maikop Novosvobodnaya. The closest population to Maikop seems to be Turkish and Armenians. Late Maikop and Maikop Novosvobodnaya come closer to Iranians but they are probably sitting on top of the Georgians.
    Eneolithic Caucasus seems to be closest to Iranians.

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  19. #1010
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    Quote Originally Posted by ffoucart View Post
    This is not the consensus in Hittitology. The entry of IE in Anatolia is seen as the result of different waves of small groups. I understand that it is more simple to postulate a single entry and differentiation in situ. But a differenciation already in the place of origin can’t be ruled out. You can read Melchert on this (a single entry « is more likely », but he does not rule out the other option).
    Over how many years did this happen? - Hittite, Luwian, and Palaic migrations to Anatolia - and from where?.

    Hittite, Luwian, and Palaic are there in Anatolia by circa 1900 BC.
    All three descend from a proposed Proto-Anatolian from the time of their split (~3500 BC?).
    Before that we would have common pre-Anatolian period going back to its split (~4500 BC?) from PIE.

    So potentially from 3500 BC to 1900 BC the Anatolian languages entered Anatolia from another location.
    But they did not go anywhere else, only to Anatolia.
    No other language from the non-Anatolian branch of PIE shows up in Anatolia during that period.

    From the other PIE branch, the Mycenaenas show up in Greece circa 1650 BC and the Indo Aryans in Syria prior to 1761 BC.

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