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Thread: J1-ZS241 from Salerno province Italy

  1. #1
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    J1>ZS241>BY143137
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    J1-ZS241 from Salerno province Italy

    Hello dear friends of the forum.
    Got today my results from the Ftdna V3snp pack, with the result: j1-ZS241.
    I am originally from: Valva in the province of salerno in Campania region.
    Would like to know information about my subclade and learn how she came to italy, because the internet is very little about it.
    I thank you now for competent answers.

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  3. #2
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    It's a pity that SNP pack doesn't test all the known SNPs. As you can see from this tree (which is no longer updated), there are lots of further SNPs. Or maybe your results show you as negative for the further SNPs? http://genogenea.com/J-M267/tree

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  5. #3
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    francesco-s91, first of all congratulations on the results!

    ZS241 is the ancestral subclade for the Jewish ZS222 and the Cohanim Z18271. Does the SNP-Pack includes ZS222 and ZS8751?

    I know one ZS241* person in J1 project being of Italian origin: 154921.

    The other ZS241* person is 282721 from Saudi Arabia.

    Are you in the J1 project and what is your kit#?
    Last edited by Yaroslav; 05-28-2018 at 05:01 AM.

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  7. #4
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    If it is an Arabian subclade it could come from an individual expelled from Sicily during the Crusades. There was a lot of movement between different southern Italian regions and resettlement of people from their original lands.

  8. #5
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    ZS241 is a basal branch of YSC234, its TMRCA is roughly 5,000 years old (though it might be closer to 4,500 years of age). It comprises the famous "Cohen Modal Haplotype", most Kohanim are under Z18271 (which could be described as the "Cohen Modal SNP"), a subclade of ZS222 which is directly downstream from ZS241. ZS222 has been found in the Anbar province of Iraq among Jews and non-Jews, as well as in Kuwait. ZS241 (xZS222) has been found in Switzerland, Italy, Saudi Arabia, Portugal (one of the Italians Yaroslav mentioned belongs to the same branch as the Bahareth family and the Portuguese individual from the Azores >> FGC13863), Kuwait and Egypt (the most basal ZS241 individual so far is an Egyptian Muslim named Zin El Abedin Zedan).

    Now here comes the more speculative stuff (my personal interpretation, you're free to disregard it): This branch's age is in line with the earliest West Semitic dispersals, the distribution of ZS241's basal lineages strongly suggests that it arose somewhere in or near the Fertile Crescent (possibly around the Southern Levant), what is more telling is that the areas where these branches show up in the Near East are generally associated with the Amorites, ZS241 also seems to have arrived in Egypt with the Hyksos which further narrows down its origin to the Bronze Age Levant. The provenance of the basal lineages in Kuwait is likely to be found in the infiltration of Amorite tribes during the late 3rd millennium-early 2nd millennium BCE (which would ultimately lead to the rise of Babylon), as for the ZS241 (xZS222) cases in Saudi Arabia they are probably due to the integration of the Shasu nomads from what is now Southern Jordan, NW Saudi Arabia and Eastern Sinai into the expanding (Proto-)Arab tribes. The fact that Jewish priesthood is so overwhelmingly associated with a branch of ZS241 also suggests that this lineage was prominent in the southern parts of Canaan, therefore the basal lineages in Italy could either be rare Jewish branches or non-Jewish ones (though still from the vicinity of Judea, Moab, Ammon, etc).
    Last edited by Agamemnon; 05-28-2018 at 06:27 PM.
    ᾽Άλλο δέ τοι ἐρέω, σὺ δ᾽ ἐνὶ φρεσὶ βάλλεο σῇσιν:
    κρύβδην, μηδ᾽ ἀναφανδά, φίλην ἐς πατρίδα γαῖαν
    νῆα κατισχέμεναι: ἐπεὶ οὐκέτι πιστὰ γυναιξίν.


    -Αγαμέμνων; H Οδύσσεια, Ραψωδία λ

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  10. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sikeliot View Post
    If it is an Arabian subclade it could come from an individual expelled from Sicily during the Crusades. There was a lot of movement between different southern Italian regions and resettlement of people from their original lands.
    It isn't really an Arabian subclade, but seems to be more of a Levantine Semitic one
    Ftdna MyOrigins 2.0: 100% SE European

    23andme: 100% Balkan

    Geneplaza K25: 100% Greek-Albanian

    Ydna: J1>P58>YSC234>ZS241

    Maternal Ydna: E-V13>CTS5856*

    Mtdna: T1a1l

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  12. #7
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    J1>ZS241>BY143137
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    I am in the ZS241 project my kit number is E32265

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  14. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yaroslav View Post
    francesco-s91, first of all congratulations on the results!

    ZS241 is the ancestral subclade for the Jewish ZS222 and the Cohanim Z18271. Does the SNP-Pack includes ZS222 and ZS8751?

    I know one ZS241* person in J1 project being of Italian origin: 154921.

    The other ZS241* person is 282721 from Saudi Arabia.

    Are you in the J1 project and what is your kit#?
    My kit is in the.ZS241 project., kit number E32265.
    Tested negative to ZS222.
    don't know now if i are positive for branches like ZS227, BY32809, FGC13873 or FGC13863.i need (but no money now)To test Bigy, they will test for all the known SNPs between ZS241 and zs222 and they will discover my own private SNP, my
    own line.

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  16. #9
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    Interesting thread, I am also in the ZS241 group and my kit is 389892.

    I am listed under . J1-ZS241 > FGC13873 > FGC13863 > ZS227 > ZS222 > Z18271 > S12192 > BY68 > FGC9941 (ZS949)

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