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Thread: House of Bourbon - What was tested in Z381 samples

  1. #1
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    House of Bourbon - What was tested in Z381 samples

    I thought I would put this here so that the conversation continues in a Z381 specific forum.

    As per Dr. Larmuseau, they were not "yet" able to test for markers Z301, Z156 and M323. They did however test the samples for L48 and U198, which both came out negative/ancestral. So, there is still a very good chance the samples belong to either Z301 or Z156.

    If someone can re-post this to the Yahoo U106, I would very much appreciate it.
    Paternal: R1b-U152 >> L2 >> FGC10543, Pietro della Rocca, b. 1559, Agira, Sicily, Italy
    Maternal: H4a1-T152C!, Maria Coto, b. ~1864, Galicia, Spain
    Mother's Paternal: J1+ FGC4745/FGC4766+ PF5019+, Gerardo Caprio, b. 1879, Caposele, Avellino, Campania, Italy
    Father's Maternal: T2b-C150T, Francisca Santa Cruz, b.1916, Garganchon, Burgos, Spain
    Paternal Great (x3) Grandfather: R1b-U106 >> L48 >> CTS2509, Filippo Ensabella, b.~1836, Agira, Sicily, Italy

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    Thanks so much for this information. I will re-post it to the U106 Yahoogroup.

    I was initially speculating that the study may have used the Geno 2.0 chip, as IMHO it seemed to be the easiest (and cheapest) way to reach a Y-DNA haplogroup, and would explain the Z381* result (due to Z301 & L48 not being on the chip). However, it appears from your comments above that this either was not the case, or that the study also tested for L48 separately.

    Do you know whether they used the GenoChip?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wing Genealogist View Post
    Thanks so much for this information. I will re-post it to the U106 Yahoogroup.

    I was initially speculating that the study may have used the Geno 2.0 chip, as IMHO it seemed to be the easiest (and cheapest) way to reach a Y-DNA haplogroup, and would explain the Z381* result (due to Z301 & L48 not being on the chip). However, it appears from your comments above that this either was not the case, or that the study also tested for L48 separately.

    Do you know whether they used the GenoChip?
    I think it highly unlikely that he would have used the GenoChip. Since Larmuseau's last paper tested for U106, Z381, L48 and U198 but not Z301 nor Z156, I assume he used the same process on this one. Here is the process he used for that paper:

    A buccal swab sample from each participant was collected for DNA extraction by using the Maxwell 16 System (Promega, Madison, WI, USA) followed by real-time PCR quantification (Quantifiler Human DNA kit, Applied Biosystems, Foster City, CA, USA). Thirty-eight Y-STR loci were genotyped for all samples as previously described in. The whole process was repeated with new primer sets for all individuals that showed non-amplified loci in order to exclude technical errors or allelic dropouts due to mutations in the standard primer positions.

    All haplotypes were submitted to Whit Athey’s Haplogroup Predictor to obtain probabilities for the inferred haplogroups. Based on these results the samples were further genotyped with specific Y-chromosomal single-nucleotide polymorphisms (Y-SNPs) assays to confirm the predicted haplogroup and to assign the sub-haplogroup at the highest resolution level of the latest Ychromosomal tree reported by Karafet et al. A set of recently characterized Y-SNPs that improved the phylogenetic resolution within haplogroup G, haplogroup T and sub-haplogroup R-M269 were included. The positions of the new Y-SNPs were verified that they do not lie in a gene-conversion hotspot within the Y chromosome. Also the possibility for back-mutations of these Y-SNPs were analyzed based on an extended AMY-tree analysis. The most recent phylogeny and nomenclature of all R-M269 sub-haplogroups are visualized in Fig. 2. The nomenclature of the sub-haplogroups is in accord with the updated tree of AMY-tree. A total of 17 multiplex systems with 120 Y-SNPs were developed using SNaPshot mini-sequencing assays (Applied Biosystems) according to previously published protocols and new protocols (van Oven et al., in preparation).
    Paternal: R1b-U152 >> L2 >> FGC10543, Pietro della Rocca, b. 1559, Agira, Sicily, Italy
    Maternal: H4a1-T152C!, Maria Coto, b. ~1864, Galicia, Spain
    Mother's Paternal: J1+ FGC4745/FGC4766+ PF5019+, Gerardo Caprio, b. 1879, Caposele, Avellino, Campania, Italy
    Father's Maternal: T2b-C150T, Francisca Santa Cruz, b.1916, Garganchon, Burgos, Spain
    Paternal Great (x3) Grandfather: R1b-U106 >> L48 >> CTS2509, Filippo Ensabella, b.~1836, Agira, Sicily, Italy

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    It is interesting to note the Royal House of Wettin http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Wettin has been found to fall under Z156 (in fact, they are under recently discovered DF98). Given the fact the Bourbon family is L48-, it is much more likely they would be Z156+ than Z301+ (Z301+, L48- is a very small subclade in the U106 Project, while Z156+ is large).

    Hopefully, there will be an opportunity to continue SNP testing the Bourbon results. It would definitely be interesting (at least to me) to see how closely they come to another European Royal line.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wing Genealogist View Post
    Given the fact the Bourbon family is L48-, it is much more likely they would be Z156+ than Z301+ (Z301+, L48- is a very small subclade in the U106 Project, while Z156+ is large).
    That's interesting to know since I am currently awaiting results from my maternal grandfather for Z301. Could anyone tell me what probability he would test Z156+ as opposed to Z301+? My grandfather's kit number in the U106 Project is 145121. We think our family originated from the Rhineland region of Germany, although we have one non-Schaefer match at 37 markers with roots in the Uckermark district of Mecklenburg-Vorpommern.

    I appreciate any help.
    yDNA: R1b-BY17850 (Ulster Scots/Lowland Scotland)
    Maternal grandfather (MDKA: Johannes Nicholas Schaefer, Germany) - yDNA: R1b-U106, mtDNA: T2
    Maternal grandmother (MDKA: Angelina Centrella, Avellino, Campania, Italia) - mtDNA: HV4a1


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