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Thread: Questions about which SNPs to test downstream of L21

  1. #1
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    Questions about which SNPs to test downstream of L21

    I was advised that I would be positive for L1335 and L1065 (based on my STR values.
    I have since tested negative for L1335...any suggestions?

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    Quote Originally Posted by N21163 View Post
    I was advised that I would be positive for L1335 and L1065 (based on my STR values.
    I have since tested negative for L1335...any suggestions?
    I don't know; I would never have guessed that you would be L1335+. For one thing, you are a fairly close match for kit 145001, and he tested L1335- back in November of last year. In fact, he has tested negative for nearly everything downstream of DF13, including Z251. I could be missing something, but the only thing I can see that he hasn't tested for is L371. That's a small subclade, so the odds are against you there. Does Geno 2.0 test for that? If so, then 145001 is negative for it, too.

    You might want to give the new Chromo2 test from BritainsDNA a shot or, if you feel like splurging, the full y genome test (for about $1300).

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    I ran your submission (N21163) through my L21 SNP predictor and received the following analysis:

    L1065 - 0 % probability - only 2 of 8 match of fingerprint
    L1335M - 0 % probability - only 2 of 8 match of fingerprint
    L1335P - 0 % probability - only 4 of 15 match of fingerprint
    L627 - 10 % probability - 7 of 13 match of fingerprint - very speculative test (1 of 10 chance of testing positive)

    My predictor only works for more recent YSNPs. I looked MikeW's spreadsheet for any match to one of his signatures
    and found you assigned to z1014c. Various submissions in this group have tested negative for: L513, Z255, DF49,
    DF41, L1335, Z251, Z253 and DF21. This leaves only CTS4466 untested for this signature for the larger and older
    SNPs under DF13.

    So your options are CTS4466 or L627 - both are pretty speculative in nature (10 % or less chance of testing positive).
    Both are worthy of testing though. Alternatives would be the more expensive Nat Geo 2.0 ($199) or Cromo2 ($99 ?) tests which
    tests thousands of recently discovered YSNPs. Two individual tests are $39 each, so that is a good way towards the Cromo2
    test.

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     N21163 (10-10-2013)

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    Kit N21163 is a fairly close match (61/67) to kit 145001 at 67 markers. 145001 has had the Geno 2.0 and is CTS4466-. Kit 145001 is DF21-, so it's likely that N21163 is DF21-, as well. If so, he can't be L627+ either.

    I think he's got to go with Chromo2 or the full y genome thing.

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    Thanks for the feedback.
    I have spoken to numerous FTDNA project administrators, who have stated that I am negative for most SNPs downstream of DF13.
    I could be part of an SNP group that hasn't been identified yet, or simply not belong to any SNP downstream of DF13.

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    Questions about which SNPs to test downstream of L21

    I'm starting this up as I've notice a general question has popped up under one of the other threads that was dedicated to L1335.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RobertCasey View Post
    ... My predictor only works for more recent YSNPs. I looked MikeW's spreadsheet for any match to one of his signatures
    and found you assigned to z1014c. Various submissions in this group have tested negative for: L513, Z255, DF49, DF41, L1335, Z251, Z253 and DF21. This leaves only CTS4466 untested for this signature for the larger and older SNPs under DF13.

    So your options are CTS4466 or L627 - both are pretty speculative in nature (10 % or less chance of testing positive).
    Both are worthy of testing though. Alternatives would be the more expensive Nat Geo 2.0 ($199) or Cromo2 ($99 ?) tests which tests thousands of recently discovered YSNPs. Two individual tests are $39 each, so that is a good way towards the Cromo2 test.
    I think Chromo2 test (raw results) is priced in the same range with Geno2 but it does seem to have more Y SNPs.

    I tend to agree with Robert that a general test (like Geno2 or Chromo2) shotgun approach would be better for you than one at a time SNP testing.

    I checked and I do have you in the spreadsheet within variety z1014-C, as Robert noticed. Below are the people with a GDs of 4 6 to 10 from you at 67 in the L21 spreadsheet. f145001 MacPhee has led the way.

    fN21163 Yuill L21+ z1014-C Scotland 0
    f147706 Cameron z1014-C Scotland 4
    f125428 Cameron z1014-C Scotland 5
    fN89459 Cameron L21+ L144- z1014-C zzzUnkOrigin 5
    fN59626 MacPherson L21+ z1014-C Scotland, Strathclyde, Argyllshire, Lochgilphead 5
    f109146 Cameron z1014-C England, London 6
    f56536 Cameron L21+ z1014-C Scotland 6
    f199452 Cameron z1014-C Scotland 6
    f192514 Cameron z1014-C Scotland 6
    f168176 Cameron z1014-C Scotland, Highland, Inverness-shire, Lochabar, Ardnamurchan 6
    f33289 Cameron z1014-C Scotland, Highland, Inverness-shire, Lochabar, Kilmallie, Moy 6
    f145001 MacPhee DF13+ L513- DF21- DF49- Z253- Z255- DF41- L1335- Z251- z1014-C Scotland, Highland, Drumnadrochit, Glen Urquhart 6
    fH1035 McPhee L21+ L144- z1014-C Scotland, Highland, Inverness-shire, Glen Urquhart, Easter Bunloit 6
    f151689 zzzUnk(Cameron) z1014-C Scotland 6
    f290940 zzzUnk(Cameron) z1014-C zzzUnkOrigin 6
    f257847 Cameron z1014-C Scotland 7
    f29230 Cameron z1014-C Scotland 7
    f28960 Cameron z1014-C Scotland 7
    f135489 Cameron DF13+ L513- DF21- DF49- Z253- Z255- DF41- L1335- L96- L144- 3c1g z1014-C Scotland, Highland, Inverness-shire, Fort William 7
    f213683 Cameron z1014-C Scotland, Highland, Inverness-shire, Lochabar, Kilmallie, Moy 7
    f163596 Scott z1014-C zzzUnkOrigin 7
    fB1057 Stack z1014-C zzzUnkOrigin 7
    f185814 Cameron z1014-C Scotland 8
    f35704 Cameron z1014-C Scotland 8
    f171522 MacMillan z1014-C Scotland 8
    f114134 zzzUnk(Cameron) z1014-C Scotland 8
    f34558 Cameron z1014-C Scotland 9
    f61542 Cameron z1014-C Scotland 9
    f144395 Cameron L21+ z1014-C Scotland 9
    f148740 Cameron z1014-C Scotland 9
    f203541 Cameron z1014-C Scotland 9
    f252226 McRaw z1014-C zzzUnkOrigin 9
    f246676 Cameron z1014-C Scotland 10
    f246283 zzzUnk(Cameron) z1014-C zzzUnkOrigin 10
    f246478 Cameron z1014-C Scotland 11

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  11. #8
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    Mike - David Reynolds summary state that 145001 is also CTS4466 negative, so you should update your spreadsheet.
    Sorry for recommending L627 when my second part of the analysis determined close matches were DF21 negative.

    This makes the only real decision is either Nat Geo, CROMO2 or Full Genomes (much higher cost) as single YSNP
    testing has no viable options.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RobertCasey View Post
    Mike - David Reynolds summary state that 145001 is also CTS4466 negative, so you should update your spreadsheet.
    Sorry for recommending L627 when my second part of the analysis determined close matches were DF21 negative.

    This makes the only real decision is either Nat Geo, CROMO2 or Full Genomes (much higher cost) as single YSNP
    testing has no viable options.
    Thanks. I have to manually enter negative results from David's .pdf's. That is error-prone (on my part) to say the least. This is one of the reasons I'd like to see a common data format and a way to share relevant Y SNP positive and negative results so I can merge them in by automation.

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    I am MacPhee, 145001, and along with 2 others in my 1014-C cluster (McPhee H1035 and Matthews 224813) have done Geno 2, our results have been uploaded to Dave Reynolds spreadsheet. We found no new snp's below DF13, and we would be delighted if someone would take Cromo2 or Full Genomes and find one for us! :-)

    Our cluster has been in limbo from the beginning, we don't fit anywhere, but appear to be an old splinter group of DF13, and so far as I can tell, have been in northern Scotland for many centuries.

    Quote Originally Posted by RobertCasey View Post
    Mike - David Reynolds summary state that 145001 is also CTS4466 negative, so you should update your spreadsheet.
    Sorry for recommending L627 when my second part of the analysis determined close matches were DF21 negative.

    This makes the only real decision is either Nat Geo, CROMO2 or Full Genomes (much higher cost) as single YSNP
    testing has no viable options.

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     N21163 (10-12-2013)

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